The simple fact is though that unless the cars have some kind of reasonable monetary value they will die. In order for the cars to survive there have to be people who are willing to invest to make the parts required to keep 2Cvs on the road. In order for the specialists to stay in business there have to be people who are willing to pay a reasonable hourly rate.

Look at the parts you can buy for a 2CV for really very little money. Bumpers, reproduction floors and sills, brake parts, etc etc etc. The only reason that is possible is because there is a healthy demand.

People may huff and puff that it is outrageous that a 2CV fetches more than 500 quid; but it is the demand for the cars and the willingness to restore them that'll ensure their survival, not the actions of a very small group of people that believe themselves to be the true hardcore enthusiasts driving a shed held together by gaffer tape and a healthy dose of good fortune.

And that isn't intended as an attack on shed driving, beret wearing, Gauloise smokers; sometimes we should just remember that it is possible to buy a brand new bumper for under 30 quid because there are lots and lots of people buying lots and lots of bumpers to make their 2CV shiny again.

I agree with all that 250. I'm not really for or against 2cv's at eight grand and over - just bemused by it. I love the cars, but not 8k's worth of love, which is round about where, like Viking said in a post above you make your choice. It's getting close to piss or get off the pot time where 2cv ownership is concerned.

Foibles are what cheap cars have, faults are what expensive cars have, that's all I'm saying.

Indeed, but if you start to apply logic why does anyone ever buy a classic? Realistically a fairly cheap Mercedes or BMW will run rings round multi million pound elderly Ferraris and the like.

Playing devil's advocate; how many hours did you put into your green car. If you'd paid yourself £20 an hour I'd bet that you've easily exceeded the 8k mark! It is why I sold my grey van. it was lovely, but I realised if I started to actually use it I'd turn it from something valuable to a £3K van in a couple of years.

I faced that same thing, but decided to use it and lose the money. There has to be more to life than chasing a profit for me, which is why I'm not a wealthy man I suppose. I'll enjoy the car for a few months more before selling it on, and once it's gone that is me well and truly off the 2cv pot as there's no way I'd pay four or five grand for a replacement - I could get a proper car for that.

Is there much practical difference between a car being off the road because it's been used to death and a car being off the road because it's stuck in someone's garage except for the odd sunny Sunday?

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No, in my mind it's the same thing. I think this harks at what bugs me the most about the situation.

It annoys me because I have never never paid more that £1000 for an A series, and I can't imagine I ever would. Why should I? It's a fun car that doesn't really matter if I scrape it, bend it or dick about with it. My current car cost me effectively £150, with about £5-700 to get it roadworthy again. It will undoubtedly get damaged because it's low, I've already destroyed the spolier and one set of axle bolts. If it owed me £8k would I have done that? I doubt it. If I had to pay £8000 for a 2cv would I have tried to put a BMW engine into it, with a high likelyhood of failure? Nope.

Looking at some photo's Little Rich put on facebook earlier of the old UDAC days shows exactly what the high prices have destroyed.



look at that, young people having fun in a cheap and disposable car. Brilliant! But, can any of todays youth do the same? Nope, they can't, because a Mehari is now worth a million pounds and is out of reach to most. The only people who can afford it are those who are never going to enjoy it properly or have any real fun with it. Sure, the occasional cars might come up cheap, but it's getting harder to do.

I wonder if my annoyance is based on nothing more an the natural tendancy to say 'everything back then was better and everything nowadays is shit', but I don't think it is. 2CVs have never been more expensive, and for no_good_reason. Most of the restorations we see for that money are no better than Joe Amateur can do in his garage having never worked on a 2CV before, and as Ken says, once the true nature of these mutton-dressed-as-lamb crocks is revealed, the owners give up on them or carry on oblivious to the fact they are a lot poorer and have a shit car worth a tenth of what they paid. If a restoration on a decent and worthwhile car is done properly by an expert then a high price to reflect the hours and effort that go in are more than valid, that's business after all. But I'm afraid just doing a half arsed resto then asking £8k+ because it's a bit shiny isn't valid, and it's destroying the fun aspect, espescially in the UK.

The rarity argument, as I repeatedly say, holds no water whatsoever.It's not hard to find a 2cv, it's not hard to find a Dyane or an Ami for sale anywhere, and I refuse to believe the supply and demand argument, They haven't become expensive because they are hard to find, they became expensive because somebody came along and saw an opportunity to make some money, there was a gap in the market, a lot of mugs were looking for a car that was 'classic' and were happy to pay through the nose.

It's not been one single factor that's caused it, but there's been one major effect. Fun has gone, nobody buying one of these 'pile 'em high' restorations will brush paint big flowers on it and use it for work every day, nobody will buy one and think 'ooh, let's drive to Africa in it' Nobody will pile 8 shirtless yobs in it and bugger off to the pub for the day. The intrinsical lifeblood of the 2cving movement, fun, not taking it seriously and using the cars the way they were meant to be used has almost gone. There's a very small percentage of the 2CVGB membership that will happily use thier car for larks and put back into 2CVing what they get out.

Somebody mentioned mk2 Escorts, yeah, BITD you could get them for peanuts, I paid £300 for mine and it wasn't all that bad at all. The thing is, they ARE hard to find, the desirable ones are anyway, and for a good reason, Rich people want them, they need them to be successful and that dictates the value, Agreed, I'd rather they were still £50 from any bloke in any pub you cared to talk to, but I don't think they've become expensive for the same reasons.

Mini's and Beetles are though, Useless as cars, they are still rising in value, for no better reason than somebody says they are cool.

The day I can't get a 2cv for bugger all and then have fun with it, I'll be very say, but it's coming, and that's the main reason I won't be selling any more A-series cars, simply because I won't be able to replace them.

I guess that as I've never bought a 2cv purely because it was cheap (I had GS/As and BXs for that purpose!) but because I wanted them, I'm in the minority?

Sadly, the old days are gone, it's up to those of us who care to keep enjoying them and then maybe, just maybe, the fun aspect will shine through and ultimately be the reason people still want them?

Brilliant Russ, very well and passionately put.
One other point raised by 250 that I forgot to answer was that of restoring a 2cv.

When he states, correctly, that if I had charged £20 an hour for labour then my rebuild too would have cost several thousand pounds more than it did, it brings up an important point. 2cv's can't be rebuilt economically unless it is a labour of love.

There are often references on here of how professional rebuilds turn out to have had several corners cut in their restoration. This is because mechanics cost £20 quid or more an hour. 'Do it quickly and push it out while there's still a profit in it' is the cause of this.

It's well known in the world of classic car restoration that there isn't much profit in doing them, that's certainly the case for the cheaper end at any rate.

To be thorough, and to do a 'proper' job will leave you with a car that it excellent but sells at a loss. This is not to say that an excellent job can't be done, just so long as the end price reflects the work, and that's where 2cv's are coming unstuck. The very best restorations are reflected in the price, but apart from a few genuine enthusiasts who are lucky enough to commission, and afford those type of resto's, the finished product doesn't represent good value.

I know of one chap that spent twenty one thousand pounds having a nut and bolt restoration done on an Austin Somerset. It is the best in the world, and yet has a finished value of around six thousand pounds. That's the thing, a garage can't expect to do up 2cv's and make a handsome profit on them without artificially forcing up the prices to something beyond what any sensible person (with no emotional attachment) might be willing to pay.

Today garages that do full resprays are dwindling. There is more money (and repeat business) in spot repairs and accident damage jobs than there is in full resprays, and the only get those by using the cars regularly.

I never realised I was going to open such a sore wound when I posted originally......It's just that I get so depressed at the amount of money that I spend on the 3 A series we have, that will never be recouped as none of them are concours, and will never be, and are used, in the main, as daily transport by my sons. To see such inflated prices, whilst the capitalist in me thinks great, I might recover all the cash I spent, I know deep down that there is no way any of our cars will reach these heady heights as they are true to their agricultural roots with dints, rust patches, numerous leaks, electrical faults etc...need I go on...Dont get me wrong though, I do not regret spending every penny on trying to keep them alive for a little longer and keeping a litle bit of motoring history and genuine uniqueness alive and kicking and make up on all the drudgery that is modern car designs.