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 Single point injection 
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Joined: December 26th, 2008, 9:40 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
Joolz wrote:
What about other people, Adrian, have you tested yours with the stim, did it work first time?


I'd never done any soldering before. Took it slowly, carefully - and it worked first time.

One thing worth clarifying from lpgo's list of "other bits above"... €175 looks like a lot for a lambda - because it's not your normal one that's really needed. Yes, you need one of them (but they're dirt cheap these days), but you really need a wideband lambda for the basic set-up. And they're not cheap. You can probably re-sell it once it's set up, though, or share it between a few people.

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December 6th, 2010, 9:22 am
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Post Re: Single point injection
Quote:
One thing worth clarifying from lpgo's list of "other bits above"... €175 looks like a lot for a lambda - because it's not your normal one that's really needed. Yes, you need one of them (but they're dirt cheap these days), but you really need a wideband lambda for the basic set-up. And they're not cheap. You can probably re-sell it once it's set up, though, or share it between a few people.
You can leave it in the car and the ecu tunes live with it (close loop) So when your mixture is to rich or to lean your ecu
in combination with your lambdacontroller will make it right for you.

Especialy with my turbo engine it happens that the ecu adjust the mixture. In a modern car nothing else happens all the time.

And yes closed loop (adjusting the mixture live) with w.o.t. (wide open throttle) is only possible with a wideband lambda probe

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Hi Geo,
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December 6th, 2010, 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
lpgo wrote:
Quote:
One thing worth clarifying from lpgo's list of "other bits above"... €175 looks like a lot for a lambda - because it's not your normal one that's really needed. Yes, you need one of them (but they're dirt cheap these days), but you really need a wideband lambda for the basic set-up. And they're not cheap. You can probably re-sell it once it's set up, though, or share it between a few people.
You can leave it in the car and the ecu tunes live with it (close loop) So when your mixture is to rich or to lean your ecu
in combination with your lambdacontroller will make it right for you.

Especialy with my turbo engine it happens that the ecu adjust the mixture. In a modern car nothing else happens all the time.

And yes closed loop (adjusting the mixture live) with w.o.t. (wide open throttle) is only possible with a wideband lambda probe


A normal narrowband lambda will do that fine-adjustment. But it needs to be "quite close". The wideband's only really needed for the initial tuning to get it to that point. But even then, you don't need it to be precisely 14.7:1, lambda=1, all the time - that's needed for catalytic converters to work. Max power is developed richer than that on full throttle, max economy leaner on cruise.

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December 6th, 2010, 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
Joolz wrote:
I looked at all the things that the MSIII can do, I don't know what most of that is so I think I don't need it. Just so I'm clear, the MSIII is a new processor, right? and you can plug it into your existing main board? one of the main boards is the v3.0, They did make it a bit confusing numbering both.

Correct Joolz,
Megasquirt processors = 1,2,3
MS III has only just hit the shelves, firmware is still in beta.

Megasquirt main board = v2.2,v3,v3.57(SMD)

I currently run a MS1 v3.0.

All processors can be updated with the v3* boards.

Harley

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It is M9 for the shocks yes, the rest I'll check when next i'm underneath her. Ironically, this will be valentines day.


December 6th, 2010, 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
I know wide band lambda sensors are expensive, but I wasn't sure how necessary they were. A narrow band will tell you if it's too rich or too lean, do you really need to know by how much, I guess if the target AFR is not very close to 14.7 then it would be hard to set with only a narrow band gauge.

Closed loop? I know OE systems use closed loop control to make the mixture as lean as possible during cruise and idle situations, but I wasn't aware that it was used on aftermarket ECUs, I thought the only 'closed loop' was the tuner looking at the AFR gauge and changing the map. If the megasquirt/Kdfi can do closed loop, then it should be able to tune itself, or would that be to easy.

I have to admit I haven't read all the megasquirt pages, there seems to be a lot of duplicated information, trouble shooting guides, and other stuff that clogs up your head and might not be needed. It's hard to understand what it's talking about when the thing isn't in front of you, so I will read the different sections as I need them, and at the moment tuning is a long way off.

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December 6th, 2010, 10:29 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
Joolz wrote:
If the megasquirt/Kdfi can do closed loop, then it should be able to tune itself, or would that be to easy.


Yes, they can - but only within a fairly narrow range away from the mapped settings, AIUI.

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December 6th, 2010, 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
Joolz wrote:
If the megasquirt/Kdfi can do closed loop, then it should be able to tune itself, or would that be to easy.
No you are quit right; you can datalog your ride and afterwards you can use the programm called megalogviewer, and with a relationship to youre ARF table (lean at cruise rich at wot) it will change your VE table as it should be. In some programms (tunerstudio) you can do this live whilst driving but this will cost you money.


A narrow-band lambda probe will only tell you if youre mixture is to lean or to rich but not how much, a wide band lambda will tell you exacty how much you are to rich or to lean, in a normal 2cv it doesn't come this close but in my Turbo-charched 2cv it is, it's the differents between knocking or no knocking at some points, but then everything is invloved; IAT temperature; CLT tempature; turbo-boost; ignition-timing yes even the temperature from the LPG so it is indeed a very complex and a wide-band probe is my best friend then....

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December 6th, 2010, 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
Hi Guys

I have read this topic and find it quite fascinating
I have a few questions about the 35-1 spacings on the flywheel
1) Is it important where you leave the the gap i.e un-drilled hole
2) Why cant the speed sensor pick up on the flywheel ring gear as some big cummins diesel engines do? - if it is used for rpm and not for firing the injectors


Harley
What sort of motors did you obtain all the sensors from? IPGO has stated prices in euro's - Approx
Do they have to be off approximately the same cc engines?
Where is the megasquirt obtainable from?

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December 10th, 2010, 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
Nibby_Pit wrote:
I have a few questions about the 35-1 spacings on the flywheel
1) Is it important where you leave the the gap i.e un-drilled hole


The ECU software has the ability to adjust where it's expected, relative to TDC on #1.

Quote:
2) Why cant the speed sensor pick up on the flywheel ring gear as some big cummins diesel engines do? - if it is used for rpm and not for firing the injectors


It'd be possible - all that would be needed is for the ECU to know how many teeth there are, and for one to be somehow "different".

Quote:
What sort of motors did you obtain all the sensors from?


I bought a complete manifold & throttle body off a Metro GTi - 1.4 K-series with multipoint. £50 off fleaBay.

Quote:
Do they have to be off approximately the same cc engines?


Throttle body & injectors, yes. The injectors would probably be fine on a two-pot (301cc per cylinder vs 350cc per cylinder), the throttle body would probably be a bit big.

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December 10th, 2010, 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Single point injection
The holes in the flywheel do the job of the toothed wheel more commonly found on the front of the crankshaft of factory efi (electronic fuel injection) systems. It's function is to tell the ecu (electronic control unit) the speed and position of the crankshaft and the odd tooth (gap) is used to trigger the ignition. As the ignition timing varies depending on the revs of the engine the ecu is programmed with how long to wait after detecting the gap so it's exact position is not critical. I believe normally however, the gap is placed just ahead of the maximum timing advance.

There are oceans of information to wade through about megasquirt on the internet, here is perhaps a good place to start http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

There are 'standard' sensors recommended for use with megasquirt if you're building a system from scratch, however the ecu can be configured to work with sensors from most car engines

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December 10th, 2010, 8:31 pm
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