Hi, Can any members shine some light on how good (or not) are the electronic ignition packages you see on the vaious 2CV sales websites in the UK. I see there is one member selling his because it is not as good as the points/condensor set up at the top end. The 2cV shop is selling one at £90 - which seems a bit cheaper than the usual £120/130 - probably not the same beast... I've not had much experience of the 2CV ignition set up - apart from setting it up, which was pretty straight forward. This is just for normal road use, so, are the points troublesome or continually needing adjusted, any views gladly received.
Cheers
Elliot

At the risk of starting some major rants in motion, I have had several types of electronic ignition on various A types over the last 35 years - I find that they mainly help starting on cold or damp mornings by boosting the spark - I know that a lot are sold on the basis of improving mpg and increasing performance but can honestly say I've never really experienced massive improvements in either respect. I have currently a points assisted box which helps prolong the life of the points by reducing the current across them - these are like the original Sparkrite capacitor discharge type - and works well enough. I have also used the plug in points replacement ones like 123 which again seem OK and finally lumenition light powered ones. I'm sure some Luddite techy will reply that properly set up points system is the best but not all of us have the time or inclination to spend hours getting them just right!

I have the 123 Uni fitted to my AK350, though I can't say I've noticed any real difference other than not having to reset the points gap obviously. It's always started well, been economic, etc... I'd had a run of condensers fail on me for no apparent reason other than poor quality supplies, the 123 negates this issue.

In my opinion, me not noticing any difference was because it's a really well set up engine and if the engine is running at it's very best on points and condenser, there won't be a massive difference when you go electronic.

I think the 'miracle cure' that many people experience on fitting electronic is due to having a badly set up engine.

If you're engine runs sweetly and starts first time, every time - as it should - fitting 123 may give you some of the advertised advantages. If your engine is pants, there's a reason for that and you should probably fix that before throwing 21st century electronics at it.

My '88 D*lly has Lumenition fitted, which, simply due to the fact I've never had a problem with it in over 100,000 miles, I thoroughly recommend.

My '85 Mehari happily trundled along on a 3000 mile spanish road trip last summer on points and condenser. They're not a hassle to maintain, you just need to learn to do it properly.

So in answer to your question, I would make sure your 2cv is set up to its best ability on points, then if you have £xx to spend get Lumenition.

Ok, here we go...

First I'm the develloper of 1-2-Spark, a free programmable electronic ignition, so I may not be objective at some "points"

Take a look at my topic of the birth of my electronic ignition over here..

http://www.international2cvfriends.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3003

So now my opinion about various ignition systems....


First Original points.. They are used since 1948 in the 2cv and yes you can let the engine run on them.. However as with many spare parts the capacitors they sell today are crapp. On top of that the new Original Coils are crap too... So al this things are making a original
igniton going bad in short time.....

Ok. you also need to replace them each 10000km or so, but if you have done it a few times it will take you about 15 to 20 minits to change and adjust them...

Now adjusted points properly you will almost get top power with them but between 1500 and 3000 rpm or cruising along you don't get all the power/fuelefficiency out of them..

All this counts also with transistor ignitions which are using points as reference.. You only don't need to adjiust or replace them as often...

For me the biggest issue is they can't stand water at all (but hey I'm doing off-road with it and probably you won't)...... If they only smell water they strike immidiatly..


Then onto ignitions wich fit also at the camshaft like the original ignition.. for instance 123, DG-nition, cassis electronic ignition and so on

They are very good alternatives to a point ignition.. Fitting doesn't take long, they are proved and give a little impovement over points..

In fact as 123 started to sell their ignitions they give them slightly more advance then the standard one, so the performance improved. But the quality of the petrol went down and the costumers complained about knocking engines. So nowadays their advance curve is very conserative and theres no (power) gain at all.. Only the 123 evo is slightly better...

Another thing is they are all cam-based ignition systems, so they are not very accurate (play in toothwheels and leaning camshafts makes this only worse....)

About 4 years ago I started to devellop my own free programmable electronic igniton especially develloped for 2 cilinder engines.... It started (as Always) with a joke but when I give it to testdrivers they where even more enthousiast then myself and now I'm selling them in small numbers on demand.....

First it works at the flywheel so no diffrence between 2 cilinders... and no moving parts
(at 123 and co there are still flying some magnets along a PCB!!!)

So it seems every engine is a littlebit diffrent, but because you can make your own advance curve (in fact 3 times) by laptop you can take the last HP out of your engine....

I also put in a temperature sensor, so at a cold engine you can give more advance (this is the problem that was mentioned (no power by a cold engine).. With my ignition you need almost none or nu choke at all and when the engine is hot it will retard your ignition so knocking is avoided...

I also put in a mapsensor, messuring the vacuum in the inletmanifold, so if you are cruising along theres a vacuum in your engine so the ignition can be more advanced for best performance, giving it a better fuelefficiency (between 5 and 22% according to my testdrivers/costumers)...
My ignition can also do multi-spark (more Sparks in 1 crankshaft rotation)
for better starting.... and as long the "blackbox" is placed above waterlevel it is waterproof

Mostly heard comment is "it is a electronic ignition you can't fix it yourself" then think abbout this... Every pre '90ties car has a electronic ignition (and injection) but still we trust it every day........ Or our mobile Phone, clockradio and so on.....

So and if you don't trust my igniton you can still leave your points in and switch to them( if neccecary within a second puttin in a switch).... But I think none if my customers ever did this......

cheers Geo....

I like points. I can see how they work and fix them in seconds. It takes less than ten minutes to change them and they last for thousands of miles longer than people say (I've had 60k miles out of a set). I have never noticed a difference between points or electronic ignition. A car on points starts perfectly and drives fine. A car on electronic ignition will do exactly the same. Points cost pennies, electronic ignition can cost more than I care to spend on a car but also makes a car start fine and run fine, just like points. If I had an critisism of points it's that some condensers have been shit and don't work over the last few years. If I had a critisism of electronic it's that it costs a fucking bomb and doesn't make any perceivable difference to me except I don't know how it works.

Oh yeah, this question comes up every so often and there's no right answer to it, only opinions.

*sits back with popcorn to watch the arguments ensue*

I think, this (underlined) is quite near of perfect answer.

Both have many pros and also many cons, and the ultimate answer depends who is making the question and also the answer...

I haven't had points on any of my cars for years, and all modifications to remove points have had different reasons. But one reason, in all of them, is that I can do the mod by myself, and also I like to make mods...

Personally, I've had Minis and Morris Minors with points/condensors and I had no problem with removing/refitting/setting-up the points gap on both cars (Minors are just about the easiest cars to work on points. Minis less so). I find the points-box on 2CVs are difficult to access quickly and easily, so choose to run electronic ignition (123). My main worry is removing/refitting the fan without causing any damage to it. I'd rather leave it alone and just get somebody (usually Peter Cross in Tibberton) to remove the fan to clean the oil-cooler when car is being serviced. I will agree that there's no real gain over points, other than not having to replace/set-up points every so often. I'm off to France in four week times and I know that as long as the battery/charge system is working well, I'll get there and back without having to resort to removing the fan and tackling knackered points/condensor.

the yellow high output coils are good