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 The O/T thread! 
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Firing on two.
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Joined: December 9th, 2008, 7:50 pm
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Cheers :)

The wedding's next July, so I've got a while to make Kim's as well. I've started on an old shilling for that, as I don't think the florin would have gone much smaller without distorting, and she wants a much narrower ring anyway.

I'm currently a care assistant, so not incredibly practical. Keeping a vague eye out for something (anything) to allow me to get my hands a bit dirtier, but that's not very easy at the moment with no qualifications.


November 19th, 2010, 8:59 pm
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
You obviously have a good eye and a steady hand Luke, and that qualifies you for a lot of things, good luck.

Devils Advocate wrote:
Cheers for the reply a page back, Old Nail;I wonder, would your current good lady have looked at you then?


I met her in a club that I was working. The club was called the 'Dali bar' after Salvador Dali. It was a weird place, absolutely notorious, the worst club imaginable for violence. The Police eventually closed it down after being called to trouble there so often, and of course the death of a couple of customers.

Funny enough, the recent mowing down of people by a car outside that club in Rochdale was also at a Dali bar, same owner. I've worked in there too, and the other one in Wigan.

When she walked in the bar I immediately knew she didn't belong there, like a lamb to the slaughter so to speak, so I kept my eye on her. I was originally only concerned for her safety (honest) and did try to warn her off the place, it was real bad news. I was known as the 'gentleman' bouncer, as I was always polite to women. :D

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November 19th, 2010, 9:06 pm
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Luke wrote:
Cheers :)


I'm currently a care assistant, so not incredibly practical. Keeping a vague eye out for something (anything) to allow me to get my hands a bit dirtier, but that's not very easy at the moment with no qualifications.


You don't need qualifications, I've never used mine once since I got them, nobody's ever asked for them, and I couldn't even lay my hands on them. Virtually pointless doing them to be honest. Turn up at an interview, talk a good job and take plenty of photo's of what you've made/done that's relevant. That's all you need to do. Just make sure you don't tell them you can do anything you can't do.

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November 19th, 2010, 9:11 pm
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Russ that's about the best advice for interview technique I've ever heard given. It's spot on, nice one.

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November 19th, 2010, 9:16 pm
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Russell wrote:
Turn up at an interview, talk a good job and take plenty of photo's of what you've made/done that's relevant. That's all you need to do. Just make sure you don't tell them you can do anything you can't do.


That's dead right. Every job I've ever done has been as a result of gaining experience (so I've got something to show of my competence, flair and commitment) and talking to people. Replying to job ads is a bit like doing the lottery, in my experience. Whenever I've put the negative voices out of my head and just got out there and talked to people with an open attitude it's always paid dividends, even when I wasn't initially looking for a job.

What sort of thing would you like to do Luke?

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November 19th, 2010, 9:41 pm
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Luke wrote:
Cheers :)I'm currently a care assistant, so not incredibly practical. Keeping a vague eye out for something (anything) to allow me to get my hands a bit dirtier, but that's not very easy at the moment with no qualifications.


You clearly had a feel for what you are doing with that ring - very round (used a mini anvil or reamer or something?) and also the exterior finish is very smooth and polished - how did you do that?


Old Nail, more and more intrigued! What on earth was she doing at that club?


November 20th, 2010, 12:26 am
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Devils Advocate wrote:
Old Nail, more and more intrigued! What on earth was she doing at that club?


You know me DA I can tell you tales all night, but sometimes I think some other folks might like to get a word in edgeways. ;)

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November 20th, 2010, 1:08 am
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Tell tell tell :D


November 20th, 2010, 1:11 am
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
OK I'll leave you with this one. it's very long, but it's something you may never have thought of, and would perhaps never have known if I hadn't told you. ;) Previously I told of how I had wanted to find a science behind Door work, to get beyond the meat-head bullies that I saw all around me, and here's how I did it.



One of the most fascinating things that I learned was how to read people. In a fast moving environment you need to be able know pretty much ‘who’s who’, and quickly. The ability to differentiate a potential threat/troublemaker from someone who is harmlessly messing around is vital, and as ever, in an attempt to be one step ahead of the game (and thus do my job better) I dedicated some time to the study of body language.

After a while it was possible to spot trouble before it began, it was common for me to know from a single peripheral glance that a certain individual wouldn’t be allowed in to the club, even though they may be still thirty yards down the road. The gait of their walk, arm or head movements would normally give the game away. All I then would need to do then was to confirm my suspicions with a glance at the face as he or she got nearer. With practice you’re hardly ever wrong.

I’d also learned to ‘weigh up’ a man with an apparently cursory glance, but that split second glance provided me with much useful information should he later become a problem and need ejecting. For example I’d quickly note if he was left or right handed,(it’s helpful to know where the first punch is likely to come from) or if he had any weak points, like perhaps a limp that would indicate a less than agile opponent, a weakness that I would then exploit to defeat him. No Queensbury rules here- sorry.

In addition to the study of body language came the study of language itself. If the primary aim of security is to prevent a situation arising by the use of prudent preventative measures, the secondary aim is to prevent that trouble should it occur, from turning physical. The ability to ‘talk down’ an opponent is a skill that is little understood by many doormen, yet with a little practice this again can save lives.

I’ll give an example another time as to how this effective technique was used one evening, and how the seemingly impossible was achieved, but for now we'll talk about language.

So what is the study of language? And how did it relate to the type of work I was doing?

Well basically we have all since birth, been subliminally influenced by certain words, whether we are aware of it or not. The use of this technique in advertising is of course well documented, but these patterns are also used by politicians to great effect.

What I began to study was the science of influence, to gain an understanding of how what you say, and how you say it, can produce certain desired responses in others.
A very clumsy example of this type of thing which might be used in advertising is to say that “XYZ is a wonder product, it does everything - You’ll wonder how you ever managed without it”

Now remember that this message is delivered verbally and not written as you see it here, so the next step would be to say:

“By now, you’re probably wondering where you can I get this marvellous product?”

Ok, so we’ve all heard ad’s like that haven’t we? Did you spot what they did to you?
Try it again, imagining that you are hearing this on TV instead of reading it. I will put in bold the subliminal wording that will influence you. This is because the brain picks up much more information than our conscious minds can handle, we hear one thing, but understand on another level entirely.

“XYZ is a wonder product, it does everything - You’ll wonder how you ever managed without it”
Now remember that this message is delivered verbally and not written as you see it here, so the next step would be to say;

“By now, (BUY NOW!) you’re probably wondering where you can I get this marvellous product?”

You see? That’s a fairly crude and possibly unconvincing example but it does indicate the way that words are used to give cue’s to the listener, this also works in reverse, so that the words someone uses toward you can give the attentive listener clues about his opponent. Using this technique successfully it was often possible to convince someone that not only are they leaving the nightclub immediately, but that it was actually their idea! :lol:

To understand this phenomenon a little better I strayed into the study of Psychology, and ultimately to an area known as Neuro Linguistic Programming. NLP is like gunpowder, it’s a marvellous discovery in itself, which was immediately misused by some to gain personal advantage over others.

Today NLP is purveyed as a ‘self help’ system, and although some of its techniques are helpful in the overcoming of certain behavioural patterns, it was the information that its use revealed about others that interested me. Psychology taught me that people tend to experience the world in different ways, and this is known as our Primary Representational System (PRS).

A person that has a PRS that is visual (such as myself) tends to see thoughts in the mind that are represented in pictures, whereas someone who has an Auditory PRS will be more inclined to hear thoughts as expressed in words. What this means is that you may be able to tune in to a person’s PRS and then supply him or her with exactly the type of words that will have the best subliminal effect.

Remember the example of the advertisement that I mentioned earlier? Well here’s a more subtle example of how using subliminal NLP techniques can be used to influence, or in this case to sell products. I’ll do the same thing as before, taking you through a person’s thought processes, and then I’ll explain how the words that he used should have told us what we needed to know about that person.

Having left security work behind, I became very interested in selling techniques. This example isn’t mine, it’s taken from Derren Brown’s book ‘Tricks of the mind,’ but it serves perfectly to illustrate the potential of psychology when used effectively in sales.

Imagine that you want to buy a new Hi-fi. Your old one is looking tatty and you’d like something a bit more up to date. You go along to a Hi-fi shop where there are some great looking ones in the window, so in you go and you say to the assistant “I’m looking for a new Hi-fi, can I see some?”

The assistant then recommends one that is in your budget. He knows which Hi-fi is the best performer, and which has the best write up in all the magazines. You ask what it’s like, so he takes you over to it and begins telling you of how it sounds amazing. He talks about speaker types, cones and hi-fi specifications but somehow you’re not getting excited.

On another shelf you spot a great looking system and ask about that one.
He tells you that the sound quality isn’t anywhere near as good on that one, it isn’t of the same spec’ as the one he is showing you, and is inferior. You are uncertain, and leave the shop saying that you will have to think about it.

A sales assistant that knew about PRS would have handled this very differently.

The assistant’s PRS with regards hi-fi’s is understandably auditory, he spoke of hearing the difference in the sound quality and he wanted to pass on his enthusiasm. You on the other hand, are quite obviously of a Visual PRS, the clues were there, you wanted to change the hi-fi because it looked shabby, in the shop you were using a lot of visual words, you told him that you were looking for a new hi-fi, that there were some great looking ones in the window, and that you wanted to see some.

Had the salesman really listened to you, he could then have taken you to a great looking hi-fi that also had a ‘good enough for you’ sound quality, then he would have made a sale, and you would have left happy.

See, it's not all smoke and mirrors is it? 8-)

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November 20th, 2010, 1:45 am
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Post Re: The O/T thread!
Old Nail .. Customer cybernetics explained in the best terms yet..

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November 20th, 2010, 1:53 am
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