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My Snap ring...
http://www.international2cvfriends.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=810		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Devils Advocate [ September 6th, 2009, 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  My Snap ring...
...has snapped. It's been like this for a while.

I only discovered it when I gave my 1984 Charlie a gearbox oil change when I bought it a few months back, and found a couple of pieces of what has been identified as a 'snap ring' stuck to the sump plug magnet.

The gearbox is actually running really well - the usual slight 'whine' (can someone tell me just how much whine is normal in each gear, please?!) but actual changes are smooth. I suspect it's the 3rd gear as sometimes I can sense a slight 'crunch' when changing down from 4th, but a little throttle blip removes this too.

What does the snap ring do (something to do with synchros)? Also, is there any 'harm' in continuing to use the car as is - provided gear changes continue to be smooth? Ie: is will it cause anything else to fall off?

Thanks.
Author:  Sean [ September 6th, 2009, 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
D shaped piece of steel? bit like a mangled cotterpin??

Its one of your syncro rings, gearbox out and strip down im afraid

timing is good tho as SPOG the parts supply bit of 2CVGB has just had a batch re manufactured

Sean
Author:  2CViking [ September 6th, 2009, 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
Have you forgotten

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70846
Author:  Devils Advocate [ September 6th, 2009, 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
Ha ha - no, not forgotten! I've been in touch with Rick and he's the one who told me what he reckons the part is. He's also hopefully lined up to do the repair when the time comes.

The 'problem' is that I need to use the car on a daily basis (kid's taxi type stuff...), so have recently bought another 2nd-hand 'box - yet to be delivered - which is reckoned to be fairly decent, but untried. My intention is to swap them at some point and have the original one reconditioned, and then swap them again at a later point.

The purpose of my post here is (a) to find out if running the current box sans snap ring will cause further damage in itself - obviously if I end up having to 'crash' the gears then that ain't good, but at the mo' it's all very smooth (I drive in a laid-back 2CV style...), (b) to get an idea of what levels of 'whine' are normal for a 2CV. These are two Qs I haven't had info for yet.

Cheers.
Author:  2CViking [ September 6th, 2009, 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
If the braking spring is missing, no way can you change gears smoothly. It must be something else.
Author:  ken [ September 6th, 2009, 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
D.A,
to repeat what I'd posted over on Aussiefrogs...
" curious that your gearchanges are still all OK, since what you've got there is part of a synchromesh ring.
The odds are that it's either a 2nd or 3rd gear one, which fail first as they get most use. "

Since only half of the synchro ring has broken off, the remainder may be enough to 'grab' the cone and allow the synchromesh to work.
However, that remaining section could now lift out if its groove and become wedged, possibly resulting in the gearbox being stuck in that gear.
I seem to recall reading in the most recent 2CVGB magazine that this happened to a car on the way to the Czech Republic, so it arrived there stuck in 3rd gear. :(

Technically speaking, isn't it a syncromesh ring not a snap ring? :roll:

ken.
Author:  2CViking [ September 6th, 2009, 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
Yes and no. It depends who you ask. Don't like the name snap ring..!!
To me the synchromesh ring is the cone shaped ring
Image

The braking ring is parts of synchronisation but its job is to brake, slow down or prevent locking of 2 gears without same speed. It is shaped like a rounded finger ring
Without the braking spring the gear will crash.

Attachment:
P8170039.JPG

The synchromesh rings job is to align 2 gears to exact same speed ensuring smooth gear change.
Author:  Devils Advocate [ September 6th, 2009, 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
Thanks for the replies.

Here's a pic:

Image

So, it's a 'brake ring' then? Works in conjunction with a synchro? Or is an integral part of it?

The worst thing that could happen is I get stuck in gear - no 'explosions' or stuff?

One of the things Rick did wonder was "where's the rest of it?!" You reckon that smooth gear changes would be nigh on impossible without this part, so the last bit of it is still doing its job and not floating around?!

Ok, as soon as I get the replacement 'box, I'll be having a rebuild...

Any comments on whine levels?! Cheers.
Author:  2CViking [ September 6th, 2009, 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
I hope I don’t have to swallow my own words. Maybe the broken brake ring is from earlier days. Have you owned the car since new? Could it be that the gear box has been opened and repaired including fitting a new braking ring?
It is very interesting if the braking ring is missing or parts of it and you can still change gears. If you know how a gear box is working, you can change gears without using the clutch simply by using the road speed and manipulating the input shaft with the accelerator. 4th gear is the easiest so it could be the braking ring on the 4th gear. Second guess 3rd gear.
This gear box jammed and would not move due to crappy reproduction braking rings (2nd and 3rd sliding pinion) luckily David from SPOG now has top quality reproduction rings in stock.
Attachment:
Friction damper 001.jpg


Noise from a gear box can come from many places (various bearings, crown wheel, gears etc) but sooner or later it will fail.
Author:  Devils Advocate [ September 6th, 2009, 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Snap ring...
Thanks 2CViking.

The car is new to me. It's a 100k miler (tho' engine is relatively young) bought a few months ago.

No idea if the broken ring is from an earlier fail - would have been very careless to have left them in tho!

As for the 'whine', is a 'new' box completely free of noise? My whine is certainly not excessive, and I suspect virtually every 2CV on t'road has some noise? I was just wondering what is deemed 'usual' or 'normal'?
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