Hi, there is mention elsewhere on this forum of a 2CV specific towing device that bolts to the front of the chassis. does anyone have a pic or plans of one.

I know there are specially designed A frames available from well known suppliers, but I was thinking a device that bolted to the front of the chassis might be more compact.

I have a "specially designed A frames available from well known suppliers" which I have had for 5 years and have probably towed about 40 cars and vans around.

I am not sure that bolting an A frame to the chassis which would therfore narrow the legs of the A, would make for a very stable tow. I suspect it would put a lot of strain on the frame when turning.

Mmm, 'specially designed'. Just like that chassis... say no more! I borrowed one of these once and found it quite nasty - in particular in the way each leg had to constantly move with the suspension arm. Anyone who has ever seen a vehicle wheel articulating on the suspension at 30mph, let alone 50 knows what a stress the frame is put under on anything other than a completely smooth road.

It also created a dangerous shimmy in the towed car's steering when setting off from rest on anything other than a straight line, the wheels whipping from side to side with the sprung joints adding to the jollies. Cure? Stop, then restart in a completely straight line. Just imagine that on a large and busy suburban roundabout.

Sure, there are probably a few of them which have shifted cars many miles without any white knuckle moments. Those who have, check the stress point near the hitch where the two arms come together - and keep an eye on it. Any accident involving a towed vehicle, rather like a motorbike pillion passenger, is usually rather nasty.

Not there on most designs of towing frame.

To add to the 'nasties' of this A-frame, most 2CV chassis will repeatedly crash down onto the frame's arms whenever the car's suspension is working... cutting nicely into the straps which pull the car along.

Specially designed!

Is it the A frame being slagged off on its own merits or just because of who makes it?

I've got one, I've used it over many thousands of miles and not had any problems-sure, I've changed the straps because they wore out after about 5 years and probably 5k use.

As for the "shimmying", I've had that but never on a car with decent tyres/pressures and decent kingpins.

I check it thoroughly before and after each time I use it and can say it's still in perfect condition.

Maybe if it was supplied by a 2CV parts supplier in, say, Staffordshire-perhaps it would get a better press?

As for the chassis crashing down on the A frame, as long as the car is at it's standard height, I've only found 2CV front bumpers to be a problem there. The Dyane, Ami, Ami Super etc all seemed to clear it by a country mile.

Rant over and I should add that I have no interest in the company that produces said A frame.

And yet I have used one for 5 years. Towed 2cv's, Acadianes, Ami's [doesn't fit a Mehari] without any problems at all though I do take time to fit it correctly.

The longest journey was from Kelso to Cognac in France when I towed an aks400 behind my Berlingo.

Strikes me you have a downer on the supplier not the product.

I'll say I do know of somebody who's used that particular frame and it suffered an almost catastrophic failure (thankfully it didn't actually fail, but could have done and the rusults could have been nasty).

However, regardless of wherever the A frame has come from, I'd sooner stick it on a decent trailer and not worry at all.

I have just been over to my barn to look at mine in detail. This is a frame that has been used over and over in the last five years. It still looks like new. I too have had to replace the straps but you would expect that with that level of use.

You are correct a trailer is the best thing but good car trailers are expensive things and out here in France have to be registered {separate number plate} and insured and the French have to take a separate driving test to pull them [applies to caravans too so not a bad thing]

Not sure how legal A Frames are out here but I have never been stoped and the convenience of their use is excellent.

Horses for courses. But the product supplied by "the company no one mentions" is very good and has its place.

I agree. Also I see that an A frame is a very convenient tool for when a trailer isn't practical. In which case, one which attaches to a chassis rather than suspension components would be my preference. I think Ken said something similar in another thread. Where did the frame fail, Russell - and what were the circumstances?

Spanners, I only speak from experience. The car towed was in exceptionally good condition, Michelins at the correct pressure, unworn steering and kps, tracking correct etc etc. _Absolutely_ not true. I speak as I find. (Many years ago had a bit of a prob with faulty, cheaper quality part from them, they changed their ways pretty fast I think.)

Grifftravel, no downer on the company we are all referring to - have never used them. Have simply looked at their products. I judge purely as I see, albeit I don't judge something good simply because it is shiny, or appears to look good from a non-engineering perspective. The fact that yours looks like new has nothing to do with its engineering integrity or safety.

On the basis of safety as well as 2CV values, I would choose not to use one of these contraptions, for the reasons I have said. That doesn't mean I am criticising those who do.

Surely the fact that two people who use one of these frames a lot have commented that they perform very well and are a good product outweighs comments from one off users who might not be familiar with their use and fitment.

Comments about products have to be balanced and not made after an occasional use.

Just pointing out the inherent weakness in design of this product, in response to your recommendation of it to JulianS at the start of this thread. When it comes to something of primary safety, I prefer not to ignore comments that there is a known case of 'almost catastrophic failure' and that an engineer can see the inherent weakness in this design. The fact that plenty have used it without failure does not mean it is safe.

I think that since, in general, the whole of the motor trade as well as breakdown organisations use an A frame which connects to a vehicle's chassis, not suspenion (at its maximum point of articulation, on a car which has huge suspension travel) would suggest an A frame which fits to a chassis is not unsafe.

It would be good to hear from someone who can explain the mathematical mechanics of all this. Is Ken anywhere?!