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2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
http://www.international2cvfriends.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5727		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  EirikJ [ October 18th, 2015, 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
Hi there!

Going to build a 2CV for "raid" use this winter. I'm on a budget on the shiny stuff like paint, but will spend money on the mechanical side.
"Chrome won't get you home" as they say on the biker-scene.

So, I have scrapped an AMI 6 Break. (I know, I know)
As the chassis, suspension and steering was in good shape, I want to use those parts from the AMI 6 and build a 2CV on top of it. (I have a complete and driving 2CV 6 with a rotten chassis)

The reasons for using the AMI bits, is that I have the understanding that these parts are stronger than the normal 2CV parts. Is this correct? That, and of course that I already have them.
The bigger springpots will be nice when going on trips on bad roads, or does it not matter?

My first question is, is it possible to use the rear suspension arms with the 2CV shell, even though they are 2 cm narrower on each side? I guess not, which leads me to the second question, can I use normal 2CV6 rear suspension arms, with the big springpots from the AMI6 Break?
Is there any difference in the geometry, which will make the combination a bad one? Like too stiff suspension or something??

Is there any other obstacles I should be aware of? The steering pinion for instance, I hope it has the same angle as on the 2CV?
The gearbox, is the AMI Break box a better choice over the normal 2CV-box? I will be using Vredestein 155 tyres...

These may be difficult questions, not everyday stuff. But thought I should ask anyway.

PS: I really really really hope, the forum will survive the ownership-troubles it's going through these days. It's a great idea, with an international forum, and this one is worth keeping!

The rolling AMI 6 Break chassis:
Image
Author:  lpgo [ October 18th, 2015, 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
Very Very good choise. No problems at all, (exept the bigger spring cannisters)... However you need to weld plates
from the underside of the shock mounting points to the chassis, (as done afterwards with the 2cv6 too) otherwise the round spring mountin tubes will rotate in the chassis.... A Dutchman lost a ralley through this for vintage cars (Paris to Peking) several years ago..
Author:  EirikJ [ October 18th, 2015, 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
Thanks for the advice, lpgo :) I think I understand, I'll look into that when I start preparing the chassis.

Any thoughts about the gearbox? 2CV6, AMI6 Break or maybe a 2CV4 box? 2CV4 in combo with the Vredesteins 155 was a suggestion somewhere. But I only know the condition of the 2CV6 box, which is working fine. That might not matter much anyway, as I want to overhaul the gearbox I choose.

I love the drum brakes for they're looks and feel. For a city-car I would have kept them for sure. Especial the bigger drum brakes from the AMI6 Break. But for a raid car, disc brakes might be more practical. Better cooling and easier access and all that. Thoughts?
Author:  lpgo [ October 18th, 2015, 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
doing 90km/h (on gps) a 2cv4 with 155 snowtrack is a good choise, if you want to travel faster a 2cv 6 would be your choise... (with decent big-bore or Visa)...

Big drums are good, but when wet, almost no brake at all, when hot (braking a lot downhill) almost no brakes at all.. plus you should use dot 5 brake oil... (need to clean everything from dot 4 first)..

If you put in new brake-shoes you should be done for about 80000km... is your raid that long???

p.s. Ami 6 gearboxes are the longest of them all, you don't want it if you want to crawl over stony mountain paths...
Author:  Harley [ October 18th, 2015, 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
^^^^^^ he's back ! :-)
Author:  AZS [ October 18th, 2015, 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
All IMHO:

If using large tires, use a short gearbox, unless you've got a very powerful engine.
As far as i remember correctly, the steering pinion is at a different angle, at least it was at the Ami 8 i used for parts.
Rear tires will touch the front of the inner fenders, the bump stops and the filler tube, when using Ami arms under 2CV coach, i once used Acadyane arms, also stronger and bigger bearings, but same width as 2CV.
About the Dutch guy with suspension trouble, i thought he had a problem with the suspension pot mount breaking off, where it come trough the chassis.
Edit to say we're probably talking about a different Dutchman, the one i meant is Johan van der Laan, but he went from Peking to Paris in 1997.
Author:  lpgo [ October 18th, 2015, 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
AZS wrote:
All IMHO:

If using large tires, use a short gearbox, unless you've got a very powerful engine.
As far as i remember correctly, the steering pinion is at a different angle, at least it was at the Ami 8 i used for parts.
Rear tires will touch the front of the inner fenders, the bump stops and the filler tube, when using Ami arms under 2CV coach, i once used Acadyane arms, also stronger and bigger bearings, but same width as 2CV.
About the Dutch guy with suspension trouble, i thought he had a problem with the suspension pot mount breaking off, where it come trough the chassis.
Edit to say we're probably talking about a different Dutchman, the one i meant is Johan van der Laan, but he went from Peking to Paris in 1997.


At Ami 6 steering pinion is at the same angle as 2cv (as far as I remembered correct..)

Yep Johan van der Laan (now living in France) suspension pot mount tube rotated in the chassis with as a result the things you mentioned... Was it Peking to Paris.. Well it is a long time ago.. Johan came over to see my Ami 6 4x4 back then. I gave him some tips and I told him to use a Ami 8 chassis.. He should have listened to me....

You're right about the rear arms, AK 400 or AK 350 will also work and have big bearings...
Author:  lpgo [ October 18th, 2015, 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
Harley wrote:
^^^^^^ he's back ! :-)


can't resist a good topic...
Author:  EirikJ [ October 19th, 2015, 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
Since I'm working the night shift at the moment, I've got some time on my hands during the night. Was curious about the gearboxes, so had a look in the A-bible. (Hope I found the right text for the right cars)

The 2CV4 is as expected, the "shortest" by far.

But when it comes to the AMI6, things are not that simple it seems. The AMI6 indeed had a very "long" gearbox at one point. But only for a very short time in the beginning of -68! It was probably too long, and in May -68 they changed it again. This one compared to the 2CV6, is actually "shorter" in the first three gears, but then "longer" on the fourth.
This might be just a good thing..... Lower speed in first, higher speed in fourth!

So for anybody interested, I made some pictures from the workshop manual:
(Speed values for 2CV are with 125x15 tyres)

2CV 4
Image

2CV 6
Image

And the interesting one, AMI 6 Break (AMB2 from May -68 to March -69)
Image


Suspension arms; since I can't use the rear AMI arms, and don't have AK arms, I'll have to go for the rear 2CV arms, and maybe reinforce those. Should I then just use the 2CV front arms too?

The AMI arms have the inertia-dampers all round. That's why I want to use them. If I use 2CV-arms at the rear, should I just go without the inertia-dampers at the rear, or will I gain anything by welding the brackets from the AMI arms, on to the 2CV-arms and mount the inertia-dampers?
The AMI Break ALSO have normal shock absorbers in the front and back.

In short; inertia-dampers, worth it or not?
Author:  citroenboat [ October 21st, 2015, 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2CV shell on AMI 6 rolling chassis
The ride on the Ami6 with the batteurs and the hydraulic shocks was far better than 2CV. Friction damped 2CV used batteurs, also my 67 AZU has batteurs and hydraulic shocks on the rear - tho the van was based on the Ami chassis wasn't it? So maybe the van rear arms are same as Ami...?
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