Yes, must have cam sensor, but with that crank sensor isn't "a must".

And next we can argue about accuracy when having only cam sensor, but when having something like 12-1 or more, it is much cedent for timing than only one notch on crank...

and once again', this is your opinion not mine.....
For a 2 cilinder engine 1 notch on flywheel is more accurate, for engines with more cilinders you are right...

and please before you argue, just try my ignition and make a verdict afterwards..

I'm using a total diffrent algoritm to determin the rpm and position of the crankshaft then all other ignition systems do... What's the use of having 35 teeth and you don't do almost anything with the information they give you... (Megasquirt,Vems, Emerald Adaptronic, Motec KMS aso.)


@Harley.. I still don't see the need for sequential ignition.... Till about 10 years ago allmost every "modern"car was running wasted spark (ford EDis system, Citroen CX turbo aso.) so what's in your opinion the advantige??? I don't see it and your story with your compressor engine and wasted spark is Bu...hit in my eys sorry...

I believe in sequential injection, giving less polution and giving more fuelefficiency.. This is the only thing I want, more fuelefficiency, even if it is only cruising along...


@ Rusty.. let my first make a working injection, then |I will programm a pid regulator for the lambda sensor....

And, depends what MS you are using, MS2 and MS3 uses much better than MS1 these trigger wheels with many teeth. Some testing with 6-1 and 12-1 triggerwheels, where some holes are drilled at not-so-even places, at low speeds MS1 had very stable RPM reading, MS2 was "correcting" RPM reading to match the notches. Very big difference between these two versions, with same sensor and triggerwheel...

What I think, RPM vary more with 2cyl than 6 or more cyl engines, so if you want more accurant timing you can get it better with as many teeth in triggerwheel that your sensor can read. Of course it means also, your controller must have capability to handle the signal what it get with 36 or 60 teeth wheel...


Modern cars, such as 2CV from -48 and DS from -55 onwards, had wasted spark. 2CV from beginning to end, DS only few years...

Wasted spark, supercharger and "wild" camshaft is the issue what Harley is fiddling on, not problem with OEM cam...


More on emissions, not so much with fuel efficiency, no improve with power...

Again you are thinking wrong.. A 2cv has only one spark- event in 1 revolution. So only interesting is the crankshaft angle from about 45 degrees befor top dead center till about 8 degrees before top dead center.. I only need to be accurate between these angles, all other angles are not of any interest to me... So hey this is why I have a pickup at 45 degrees befor TDC.. just like Ctiroen does with Visa, believe me they aren't/weren't stupid..

So why do I need a 36-1 triggerwheel...

On speed the advance is about 36 degrees so only 9 degrees from my pickup, with a 36-1 wheel it goes up to 10 degrees..... so even worse then my system... sorry..




Wasted spark is all about a spark in the exhaust stroke... must be a very very very wild cam if there wouldn't be a exhaust stroke..




Well I disagree, sorry..
Only squirting petrol when the exhaust valve is closed gives you more fuel efficiency and as sideeffect theres less unburned fuel in the exhaust so less emmisions...

Now please Jasu don't let me argue with you all the time.. Maybee I'm wrong with all this, Maybee I have never made a decent ignition and maybee I will never make a working injection, but hey this is my small world and my hobby and I like it this way sorry...

and again, I feel sorry for you, argueing about the accuracity of my ignition, but you never tried it so how do you know.... sorry...

Take a look at my ignition topic, there are 2 videos which a client made of my igniton and 123... they say it all...

ok. on with 1-2-squirt.. This evening I fitted my Tech edge lambda probe and gauge to my car. I was curious how I tuned it (without the help of a probe).. Overall I was still a little on the rich side.. (14.7) while Lpg has a stochiometic value of 15.6.. But not bad at all.. Now with the lamba probe fitted I can lean off, going as lean as 17 when cruising along... Milage will go up and that is what I want.....

I will make a few pics and maybee a video tomorrow...

cheers Geo..

Oi! keep it in your pants Geo
I didn't mean to cause such a stir...
I am approaching this with the idea that sequential ignition can have two advantages;
1. Reduced sparkplug wear as they are only firing half the amount of time they do on wasted spark.
2. Longer dwell time for individual coils, which would also mean longer coil life and also more powerful spark with the right coils.

That seems like a benefit to me!? Especially if your system is setup for sequential fuel I thought it would be a 'natural progression'.
I realise for a 2cylinder vs an 8 cylinder this is not as much of an advantage but still an advantage none the less.

Please continue development and discussion, it's brilliant!

Harley

Well Harley, I like the discussion too, I only can't stand people who make a verdict without even trying it.... seems a little stupid to me.. Otherwise I don't bother much (it takes only a lot of time and energie)..

On again...

Yes you are right (are you???), theoreticly there is less sparkplug wear wenn driving sequential ignition, but therefor it is easier to install. Otherwise you need another (camshaft) sensor and wire which must go to the front of the engine or valve-cover so more chance on dammaging it (hot engine parts). I change my sparkplugs not a lot so (in fact I didn't the last 3 years not even on my new Beamer engine) so no issue for me...


Now number 2 I disagree... You want shorter dwelltimes not longer, all the problems with modern Valeo coils are related to to long dwell times.. A Dutch 2cv service station sended me 5 broken coils (when hot they didn't run anymore) which all 5 run excellent on my ignition because I'm giving the right amount of dwell and nothing more. Again longer dwelltimes don't give you a hotter spark only a hotter and eventualy broken coil...

As you can ask all 1-2-spark drivers the dwell time needs to be around 0.004 seconds when the dynamo feeds the system. So with 0.004 seconds and a sparkduration 0.001 seconds you can run your 2cv up to 12000rpm without having problems.. I guess this will do eeehhh.

p.s. your logic coils are running on 0.0025 seconds of dwell (when I remember right) which is 24000 rpm.....

I still drive on my black coil, be it my LPG turbo car with 1.5 bar of boost or my LPG Ami. Again I don't notice any advantige using another coil.. sorry..

p.s. My Beamer is running on 2 Visa coils (because these where the first coils I found in my garage)

So for injection I see a bigger advantige running sequential... You can start squirting fresh petrol (or gas) when the outletvalve has closed so no unburned fuel gets into the exhaust.

Putting in a little time table behind it you can (retard/)advance the squirt when RPM increases, becausethe air will go quicker in so you need to squirt earlier..

Now this is what I want to achieve and test... Petrol prices will only go up in the near future and I will be ready for it....

B.T.W. end of this year the first cars without drivers are allowed to drive on public road here in the Netherlands... I feel a 1-2-no-driver comming up......
Jasu how do you think about this.....

Where you get that 10 degrees? I don't think you never understanded why there is more than one notch in every modern igntion/injection control? Feel sorry for that for you.

Clearly you think only by one engine cycle, forgetting that in for example in six cyl engine there is three compression cycles and also three ignitions in eveey revolution, what makes it rev smoother.


Think again. When there is inlet valve open? With some "hotter" cam, it opens when piston is coming to TDC, just like when spark comes. Ok, having spark, compressor tries to put fresh air with fuel to cylinder, then put ignition with and then there happens that what we don't want, blower wants to fly away if pop-off -valve can't relieve overpressure out of manifold...

But hey, that isn't problem with standard cam and without compressor, so there isn't any problem..?



Well, sorry I didn't write as you could even try to understand, it ment to be "it helps more on emissions", never mentt to say it doesn't help. My mistake, to make sintence what can be readed like anyone wants...





Again, and again. Not mention to be rude, or trying to say you make something s*it, no. It is great you are thinking different and make things to work. But, that doesn't make all other manufacturers any worse, and usually they have reasons why they make their products how they make them.

If in automotive industry make something, let's say stupid solution, it will go out of production, and it happens very soon. Reading what you tell about triggerwheels, and pickups for ignition/injection, what I see you try to tell us everyone else is wrong.

Sorry to hear, you doesn't stand anyone to say anything against your thinking, I understand that, but it doesn't help your developement because you can't believe about anything anyone is said to you.

And one issue more. What I said earlier, I'm very sure there is also mis-understanding -issue, because of our language of origin. It is very easy to say or write with our own language, but english isn't that -for both of us. It makes little bit confusing, and sometimes hard to understand what is really mentioned.



Sorry if I have made to feel rude to you. If you want, this is the last posting to any of your topics. But please, say it if you want it.

Cheers, Jasu

simple 360 degrees/36 notches = 10 degrees... (your missing tooth is even 20 degrees)..


Yes I understand, but you don't understand why it is not needed at a 2 cilinder engine..






I am making an ignition and injection for a 2 cilinder not a six eight or 16 cilinder..




Even at the wildest camshaft with the biggest compressor the spark will always be wasted in the exhaust stroke...



They are not wrong, but it isn't neccecary for a 2 cilinder that is what I'm tring to say but you don't want to understand..



Because all you have written till now is of no use for me..
So Jasu I've got already a perfect timing just with 1 notch, even if you can't believe it. I'm making ignitions which operate within .5 degrees of demand (probably even better) so that is not an issue anymore.. but this is not getting in your brain. So please don't bring up tooth-wheels again.. Up till now you haven't said anything which is of use for me at the moment.... (develloping a free programmable injection system for A-types).....



Sorry I think I am very clear all the time...




Jasu, all I want to do at the moment is to make my own free programmable injection system for my standard Ami 8 engine, (just like I already did with the ignition). So if you want to help it will be great, but if you keep comming up with tooth wheels and wild cams or timing issues please don't write again, we are now 2 pages on the way and as you see I won't listen... you are just waisting your time and mine...

And with that kind of thinking, 1-2 spark has 360 degrees, only one possible when to spark..?

That makes very clear to me, if you are made your opinion based on that...


So, why Magneti-Marelli and Delphi think (and use) it in their 2 cyl injections..?


I just try to find out, why all other developers are gone in total different way? Because, what I have learned in these years, the ignition timing can be quite accurate with one notch, when computer calculates the best ignition event, but with more information from crank position it can be much more accurate. Another thing, sequential injection need to know in 2 cyl engine, witch one of cylinders is on intake cycle, without that information, it is only the best guess, and can be wrong way round.

Wasting time? Well, if you think it is wasting, when some people are thinking and make questions about what you are developing. That tells, you don't want to listen anyone, but yourself...

And finally, you keep saying Megasquirt is crap, but still you ask to read Megamanual. Why, if it is crap, doesn't work well or there is totally stupid way to use sensor signals...




Oh, I see, you don't listen. Sorry about that last message, that will be the last one on this topic. If something still bothers, please edit every message where is quoted something from my messages, I can do same. Or ask moderators to clean all up, if that way is a better way...