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 Gearbox swap 
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2CV Fan

Joined: February 5th, 2014, 1:39 am
Posts: 35
Post Gearbox swap
Will a 602 gearbox go onto a 435 engine?
I know the clutch splines are different, and the clutch mechanism is different.
The 602 was in an accident, and will cost too much to redo the engine, but I'd like to have the gearbox, axles with better 2cv joints and wheel hubs.
David


March 5th, 2015, 6:16 pm
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Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
Posts: 3675
Post Re: Gearbox swap
435 and later 602 gearboxes have the same number of splines.
Unless you meant 425 (and 2cv joints)... ;)



H Clew wrote:
Will a 602 gearbox go onto a 435 engine?
I know the clutch splines are different, and the clutch mechanism is different.
The 602 was in an accident, and will cost too much to redo the engine, but I'd like to have the gearbox, axles with better 2CV joints and wheel hubs.
David

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March 5th, 2015, 6:44 pm
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Firing on two.

Joined: December 22nd, 2013, 5:01 am
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Location: Netherlands
Post Re: Gearbox swap
If the accident was that hefty, the engine is beyond repair, chances are big the gearbox is shot too.


March 5th, 2015, 8:06 pm
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2CV Fan

Joined: February 5th, 2014, 1:39 am
Posts: 35
Post Re: Gearbox swap
The 602 engine isn't totaled. The fan shroud, fan, oil cooler, oil filler etc need to be replaced. I spent a bunch over the last year rejuvenating the car, and it runs pretty well on the 435 (when I can get it to start, but that's another topic.)
I have the clutch and brake pedals that go through the floor, so I don't want to go through the necessary steps of repairing the 602 and installing everything in the car.
The larger drum brakes, and the drive shafts would be better than the four exposed U-joints that I have.
I might be willing to try the newer gearbox if it's a "bolt-on" fix.
David


March 5th, 2015, 11:20 pm
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Joined: November 29th, 2008, 10:05 pm
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Location: West Sussex, U.K.
Post Re: Gearbox swap
Sounds like you're talking about a 425, not a 435. Not a direct swap if so, quite an involved job.

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March 5th, 2015, 11:57 pm
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2CV Fan

Joined: February 5th, 2014, 1:39 am
Posts: 35
Post Re: Gearbox swap
I really don't know what I have.
It's titled as a 60. It doesn't have the rear side windows, it has suicide doors.
It has the master cylinder and clutch levers down on the frame.
It has the two exposed u-joints on each side.
The gearbox has the shift pattern that goes from 3rd over and into 4th without going through neutral.
I've had the cylinders off, and they measure 68.5mm. The intake and exhaust ports are not on the same plane. I think that makes it a 435.
The data plates were pop riveted on, so they could be from anything.
It's together, and runs pretty well as is. It's a fun around town car, so I won't be throwing much more money at it.
If I could only get it to start reliably.......stand by for another topic!

http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/HClew/media/2CV/Finished%20and%20running/20150225_104128_zpsrc5a84lo.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/HClew/media/2CV/Finished%20and%20running/20150225_104259_zpswfpkfa8s.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


March 6th, 2015, 4:00 am
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Joined: October 22nd, 2014, 10:59 pm
Posts: 1397
Location: South-Limburg
Post Re: Gearbox swap
I think the gearing is different and the 425 will have to struggle with it. Different splines ont the shaft will call for a other clutch plate but i don't know if that will fit on a 425 motor. You will need another gearstick too as the lever is farther forward.
425 engines start rather well normally, better than 602 versions...


March 6th, 2015, 9:16 am
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Joined: November 11th, 2010, 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Gearbox swap
From your photos it is something of a bitsa. It appears to be a later engine, fuel pump on the left & inclined not flat heads & M28 type manifolds - but where is the generator? If it is on the crankshaft then presumably this is a 1 off adaption, it is 6volt going by the battery, which would support the crankshaft mounted dynamo - rather than an alternator - the exhaust is also (neccesarily) non standard. It may have an early type flywheel to mate with the early gearbox.
So. It is some flavour of M28 engine, either 602 or 435 (as you say) NOT a 425. You may simply need to put the flywheel & clutch from the crashed 602 engine on this one to mate the input shaft to the clutch but you will need to adapt the old type overhead clutch release cable to a late underneath one, they are different lengths, the throw is different, the ends & adjusters are different.
At least the problem of getting an M28 exhaust to fit with 'organ stop' pedals is already done! :lol:
Good luck!

mike
H Clew wrote:
I really don't know what I have.
It's titled as a 60. It doesn't have the rear side windows, it has suicide doors.
It has the master cylinder and clutch levers down on the frame.
It has the two exposed u-joints on each side.
The gearbox has the shift pattern that goes from 3rd over and into 4th without going through neutral.
I've had the cylinders off, and they measure 68.5mm. The intake and exhaust ports are not on the same plane. I think that makes it a 435.
The data plates were pop riveted on, so they could be from anything.
It's together, and runs pretty well as is. It's a fun around town car, so I won't be throwing much more money at it.
If I could only get it to start reliably.......stand by for another topic!

http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/HClew/media/2CV/Finished%20and%20running/20150225_104128_zpsrc5a84lo.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/HClew/media/2CV/Finished%20and%20running/20150225_104259_zpswfpkfa8s.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

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March 6th, 2015, 12:46 pm
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Joined: August 8th, 2012, 11:00 am
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Location: Korpilahti, Finland
Post Re: Gearbox swap
citroenboat wrote:
From your photos it is something of a bitsa. It appears to be a later engine, fuel pump on the left & inclined not flat heads & M28 type manifolds - but where is the generator? If it is on the crankshaft then presumably this is a 1 off adaption, it is 6volt going by the battery, which would support the crankshaft mounted dynamo - rather than an alternator - the exhaust is also (neccesarily) non standard. It may have an early type flywheel to mate with the early gearbox.
So. It is some flavour of M28 engine, either 602 or 435 (as you say) NOT a 425. You may simply need to put the flywheel & clutch from the crashed 602 engine on this one to mate the input shaft to the clutch but you will need to adapt the old type overhead clutch release cable to a late underneath one, they are different lengths, the throw is different, the ends & adjusters are different.
At least the problem of getting an M28 exhaust to fit with 'organ stop' pedals is already done! :lol:
Good luck!

mike

Engine is AYA2, 435cc, found on 2cv4. And there is place for dynamo.

M28 is 602cc and AYA2 is 435cc, almost no part is possible to change between them

Flywheel can be mounted from AYA2 to any 425 engine, but not to M28 or M4, the bigger ones have different PCD on mounting bolts.

And about drive shafts and wheel hubs, with AYA2 is same hubs as M28 (talking about 2cv, Van and Ami has different hub with bigger bearing), drive shafts are same (both have seen with AYA2 and M28, six and four bolt brakedrum mounting).



This 2cv is in States? It can be fixed with only engine/gearbox found, finding spares there is, from what I have read, some kind of adventures. Total different to European countries. One other thing, this 2cv is over 50 year old, so anything can be possible, what has happened in those years...


March 6th, 2015, 2:35 pm
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2CV Fan

Joined: February 5th, 2014, 1:39 am
Posts: 35
Post Re: Gearbox swap
Yes, it's a Bitsa
The 6 volt dynamo is on the shaft, works well.
Since everything works well, I'm going to invoke the adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Thanks for a lot of info.
David


March 6th, 2015, 3:01 pm
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