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 Silenser installation help tips needed.. 
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Post Silenser installation help tips needed..
Maybe I should have consulted the Haynes manual but figured this would be straightforward and wouldn't require needing a shop manual. Boy was I wrong!

I "repaired" the old silencer a couple of weeks ago to get me by. If you remember, the clamp that holds the exit pipe to the rest of the exhaust system fell off and could not find it at any local auto part stores so I had to rig it together with some hose clamps. It also had a couple of holes in it. One of the support brackets broke so I had to weld it back on so it was basically knackered.

Today I spent about 3 hours installing my new silencer. It was made by "Walker" if that rings a bell. As to why this silencer gave me a fit, I don't know. The old one I put back on in less than an hour.

Anyway, the trouble I initially had was lining the support brackets up with the bolts on the gearbox. Once the brackets were aligned, the pipes would not line up.

What gave me the most trouble was getting the passenger side joint (after the heater box) to seal. I took the clamp off numerous times. I could not get both joints to line up enough to create a good enough seal.

I finally loosened the bolts/nuts on the clamp before the heater box. Hoping that might give me some adjustment. This seemed to help a bit.

I went back and loosened both bolts/nuts on the clamp after the heater box and kept rotating the clamp hoping it might overlap both joints and pull them together.

As of now, the driver's side seems to sealing. But both joints on the passenger side are leaking just a wee bit. I can feel air blowing from the joints.

Also I had to remove the bolts on the gearbox support bracket in order to get the passenger side pipe to align to make a good enough seal.

OK questions.

Can someone give me some tips on how to align all of these pipes together so they don't leak? Would it be easier to remove or loosen the clamps before the heater boxes then tighten the clamps at the joints after the heater box? Does that make sense?

How critical are the support brackets? I mean I know they are there for a reason but seems to hinder aligning the pipes.

The new clamp I got uses a carriage bolt so I don't have to use either two spanners or a socket and a spanner. I should have ordered a complete set and will probably order some more. It also seems to be a bit "fatter" which overlaps the flared ends.

Also do these type of joints seal all that great to begin with? I mean should I be busting my balls trying to get them to seal perfectly? I'm not smelling exhaust fumes when the heater is on so they must not be leaking too bad.

I noticed someone had smeared some of that white muffler repair paste around the joints. I guess an ill fated attempt at making them seal better.

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September 23rd, 2016, 1:02 am
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Joined: October 5th, 2009, 8:22 pm
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
Welcome to the frustrating world of Citroen!

I think perceived wisdom is that you attach the cross box first without any other later parts being attached in order to achieve a good seal to the exchange boxes - loosening the heat exchangers and slightly rotating can often give a better seal too.

I too have had issues getting the hangers mounted on the gearbox correctly when all the rest of the system has lined up nicely and have left it unsupported on at least one of the bolts without any serious issues.

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September 23rd, 2016, 9:21 am
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
With some cross boxes, possibly not made well or bent in transit, a certain amount of pulling tubes into position is required, tightening the gearbox mounting bolts is the last job you do once it's all tightened up. Back them right out and just hang the box loosely on the bolts until you've finished.

Using the complete round clamps from Burton helps too, these are good: http://www.burton2cvparts.com/exhaust-clamp-49mm-special-p-5110.html?cPath=499_8024_8032 note there are two sizes. The four top clamps are slightly larger than the one exiting the cross box.

The original clamps don't seal all the way around and just rely on holding the ends hard together, they often get bent from over-tightening and this doesn't help upon reassembly, although they can be squeezed straight again in a vice.

Looking at the clamps from the side you want to aim for them being perfectly 90 degrees to the pipe, if you know what I mean, loose fit everything from the headers back and always use exhaust assembly paste, they won't seal well without it. You use the paste evenly on all mating surfaces and not on the clamps themselves.

Cleaning the ends of all pipes inside and out and cleaning the clamps with a scraping screwdriver or similar and then wire brush to remove any old lumps of paste/rust always works for me too.


September 23rd, 2016, 9:32 am
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Location: Hawkins County, TN. USA
Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
The "shit clamps" as Burton calls them are the same ones I've been having issues with.

I could not get the pipe on the crossbox to line up perfectly with the pipe coming out of the heat exchanger. It was somewhat at an angle. That's what prompted me to loosen the other clamp and now that joint leaks.

Here is the clamp I ordered for the exit pipe that seems to be working although I can feel some cool air from around the joint. I don't know if this is the engine fan or an actual leak.

Image

I can get those clamps that Burton sells from a 2CV supplier here in the US. I don't know why I didn't notice them to begin with. I guess I did not know I was going to be having this trouble!

http://www.2cvsource.com/muffler-front-and-heater-box-70-90,68.html

Right now I have this pop and crack decelerating. I did not notice this before I had issues with my silencer. My guess is air is being sucked into the exhaust system.

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September 23rd, 2016, 1:03 pm
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Joined: April 9th, 2010, 12:21 am
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
I agree with everything that Robinm has said. I would add a couple of things. Even if you do use Burton clamps or similar, you still need to get the joints aligned properly first, otherwise you will just be forcing the joint together and stressing the metal, which may lead to cracked flanges. I've never had a problem with the standard clamps from Ecas, which are better than the original Citroën ones and much cheaper than Burton's.
As Robinm said, exhaust assembly paste should be used. NOT exhaust repair paste. (Some people use copper grease instead but I've never tried that or found the need to try anything but exhaust assembly paste for assembling exhausts).
Remove the heat exchangers, clean all faces (I use a suitably sized round wire brush in a drill), on all four heat-exchanger joints and crossbox/swan-neck joint. Hang the silencer on loose gearbox support bolts with large washers on each side of each hanger bracket. Ensure that the bolts aren't too long, as otherwise when you tighten them (later), they can bottom out and then strip the thread in the aluminium if you don't realise and continue to tighten. Loosely fit both heat exchangers and adjust until all four joints are aligned. If this is not possible, consider whether loosening and rotating the cylinder heads might help. It is very occasionally necessary. Obviously if you do need to move the heads, you will need to re-torque them and reset the tappets. Having got all four joints aligned, with a smear of assembly paste on each face, tighten the four 49mm clamps evenly. Then fit the swan-neck pipe. (47mm clamp). If that will not line up, it will need separating from /rotating in the torpedo (side) silencer. When fitted, the torpedo rubbers should be hanging symmetrically and not be under any strain in any direction. The correct tailpipe comes out at the back of the car but some people fit the short tailpipe from the van or Mehari. If you have the short tailpipe (exiting in front of the rear wheel), you should also have the van/Mehari torpedo rear support bracket* which restricts sideways movement, otherwise there is too much strain on the swan-neck pipe and it's joint at the crossbox. (*Some people just use a cable-tie around the rubber hanger instead of fitting the correct part). Lastly, tighten the M7 hanger/support bolts in the gearbox.
Edit: I've just remembered that, a week or so ago, you mentioned that you had not removed the wings yet. I assume you took the wings off to do this job. Otherwise it would have been much more difficult than it should have been!


September 23rd, 2016, 1:12 pm
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Location: Hawkins County, TN. USA
Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
I agree with everything that Robinm has said. I would add a couple of things. Even if you do use Burton clamps or similar, you still need to get the joints aligned properly first, otherwise you will just be forcing the joint together and stressing the metal, which may lead to cracked flanges. I've never had a problem with the standard clamps from Ecas, which are better than the original Citroën ones and much cheaper than Burton's.
As Robinm said, exhaust assembly paste should be used. NOT exhaust repair paste. (Some people use copper grease instead but I've never tried that or found the need to try anything but exhaust assembly paste for assembling exhausts).


Is this the exhaust paste your referring to? I wanted to confirm before ordering.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hylomar-61900-E ... 91&vxp=mtr


Remove the heat exchangers, clean all faces (I use a suitably sized round wire brush in a drill),

I did use a brass circular brush on a drill on the joints exiting the heat exchanger. But not the ones entering the heat exchanger. But will when my clamps arrive.

on all four heat-exchanger joints and crossbox/swan-neck joint. Hang the silencer on loose gearbox support bolts with large washers on each side of each hanger bracket. Ensure that the bolts aren't too long, as otherwise when you tighten them (later), they can bottom out and then strip the thread in the aluminium if you don't realize and continue to tighten.

Someone had substituted a longer M7 bolt on one side using an 8mm nut as a spacer. I used a small screwdriver and measured the thread depth. Luckily the only M7 X 1.0 bolts the autopart store had were the correct length. But I think Lowes Hardware sells M7 bolts in their "hard to find" bins.

Loosely fit both heat exchangers and adjust until all four joints are aligned. If this is not possible, consider whether loosening and rotating the cylinder heads might help. It is very occasionally necessary. Obviously if you do need to move the heads, you will need to re-torque them and reset the tappets. Having got all four joints aligned, with a smear of assembly paste on each face, tighten the four 49mm clamps evenly. Then fit the swan-neck pipe. (47mm clamp). If that will not line up, it will need separating from /rotating in the torpedo (side) silencer. When fitted, the torpedo rubbers should be hanging symmetrically and not be under any strain in any direction. The correct tailpipe comes out at the back of the car but some people fit the short tailpipe from the van or Mehari. If you have the short tailpipe (exiting in front of the rear wheel), you should also have the van/Mehari torpedo rear support bracket* which restricts sideways movement, otherwise there is too much strain on the swan-neck pipe and it's joint at the crossbox. (*Some people just use a cable-tie around the rubber hanger instead of fitting the correct part). Lastly, tighten the M7 hanger/support bolts in the gearbox.

Luckily The pipe you are referring to lined up perfectly


Edit: I've just remembered that, a week or so ago, you mentioned that you had not removed the wings yet. I assume you took the wings off to do this job. Otherwise it would have been much more difficult than it should have been!


No I did not. I figured I could work around them. I did attempt to remove the gray panel. I removed the M8 bolt at the front and tried to lift the panel off but could not. Maybe I needed to loosen the other M8 bolts?

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September 23rd, 2016, 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
Hi, nice car,
It's well worth getting the wings and the wing bonnet valence panels used to being removed fairly regularly. One of the benefits of this is that it gives you loads of room to carry out all kinds of the maintenance that these cars need if used to their potential ;) . The 8mm. head, 5mm. setscrews that hold the little panels on are a doddle to remove when coated in a copper rich grease as are the 12mm.wing mounting nuts. The earth lead from the indicator can be fastened to the front 5mm. screw. If the wing paintwork is in good condition then a towel or somesuch helps avoid damage when removing and refitting as it will rub on the bumper while your fighting to line everything up, especially the lefthand one :lol: .


September 23rd, 2016, 7:31 pm
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
rob massey55 wrote:
Hi, nice car,
It's well worth getting the wings and the wing bonnet valence panels used to being removed fairly regularly. One of the benefits of this is that it gives you loads of room to carry out all kinds of the maintenance that these cars need if used to their potential ;) . The 8mm. head, 5mm. setscrews that hold the little panels on are a doddle to remove when coated in a copper rich grease as are the 12mm.wing mounting nuts. The earth lead from the indicator can be fastened to the front 5mm. screw. If the wing paintwork is in good condition then a towel or somesuch helps avoid damage when removing and refitting as it will rub on the bumper while your fighting to line everything up, especially the lefthand one :lol: .


I wished I had taken the effort to remove the wings. My back and legs were aching afterwards!

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September 23rd, 2016, 10:11 pm
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Joined: April 9th, 2010, 12:21 am
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
turbofiat124 wrote:
Is this the exhaust paste your referring to? I wanted to confirm before ordering.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hylomar-61900-E ... 91&vxp=mtr
Yes. That's the stuff.


September 23rd, 2016, 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Silenser installation help tips needed..
turbofiat124 wrote:
I wished I had taken the effort to remove the wings. My back and legs were aching afterwards!

Having the wings off makes getting at the lower joints and the M7 hanger bolts much easier: you can get your hands in and see what you're doing at the same time!


September 23rd, 2016, 10:22 pm
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