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what would you do? poorly engine content...
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Author:  Neil [ August 31st, 2010, 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  what would you do? poorly engine content...
Well, finally got the yellow heap MOT'd on Friday afternoon & went straight from the MOT station to the International - a journey of some 180 miles. Up until then i'd racked up a massive 12 miles so hadn't really got a feel of the thing.

Once on the A38 it became only too apparent that it wasn't particularly quick, even by 2cv standards! 60 was just about attainable on the flat & on the way up the most i saw on satnav was an indicated 69mph on a massive downhill stretch. When i turned up to the site the thing wouldn't idle and was running like a sack of spuds. Ken kindly had a butchers & i think it was Xmas that found the problem when Ken removed the air filter rubber pipe & in the carb was one of Lidls kitchen wipes! :oops: God knows how i managed to leave that in there. With that removed the idle was restored & the nasty knock i was experiencing was diagnosed as possible piston slap.

I later handed the heap over to Mr.Pembro and got him to adjust the tappets & time it up - the tappets were almost spot on but the timing was too advanced. On the way home, although very slightly better, 60 on the level was pretty much the max speed & i did top 71 mph once coming down the other side of Haldon hill, Exeter.

Did a compression check earlier & both sides are low - around 110. Am i looking a burnt out valves, is it worth sticking in a new set of Barrels & pistons? I have no idea of the history of the engine, mileage, etc. I *think* it's an '87 lump & that's all i know. What causes piston slap? is it likely the bottom end will be tired if the top end is?

Any help/ideas gratefully received!

Neil.
Author:  Devils Advocate [ August 31st, 2010, 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
'Piston Slap' is caused, I believe, by worn bores/piston rings.

Yes, it's likely that the whole engine is generally worn, but this can only be properly confirmed by dismantling - unless there are other obvious symptoms such as big-end rumble or knock, etc.

HOWEVER (now that you're thoroughly depressed :) ), the speeds you are getting aren't that appalling and are probably quite typical of the majority of 2CVs out there. So, personally, I'd just run it as it is - if that's what you'd rather do 8-) .

Perhaps keep an eye out for a spare engine, either one that's in better condition, or else one that's ripe for restoration. Fix it up and swap it when you have time.

The one you have will probably last years...
Author:  ken [ August 31st, 2010, 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
Neil,
if those compression readings are 'hot engine, with throttle wide open', the top end of the engine is definitely rather tired.
Heavy piston slap suggests a partial seizure at some point in the past, so new pistons and barrels could be on the cards.
Needless to say, a decoke and valve grind should be carried out when the engine's apart.

ken
( Has Rick invested in a torque wrench yet, or is he still guesstimating the cylinder head stud torques? :roll: )
Author:  Neil [ August 31st, 2010, 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
Thanks for the replies, chaps. Ken, those readings are with a fairly warm engine - i'd driven home 10 miles, had my dinner & then took the readings! But yes, the throttle was wide open.

DA - i've owned/driven loads of A-series over the last 17 years & this is the slowest by a long chalk! ;)
Author:  ken [ August 31st, 2010, 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
Neil & D.A,
it's probably producing about 75% of what it should be, if it's struggling to get above 60mph.

Your mpg should increase with the engine in better fettle, as will the top speed which can be obtained, although not simultaneously... ;)

ken
Author:  Harley [ September 1st, 2010, 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
ken wrote:
Neil,
( Has Rick invested in a torque wrench yet, or is he still guesstimating the cylinder head stud torques? :roll: )


Rick is a torque wrench :roll: ...

I watched him closely perform this procedure on 2008 Raid Australia, he simple draws his left testicle up into his lower abdomen, assumes a low, wide stance and then "torques" the studs until his testi drops back into place, which is evident by a loud CLUNKKKK!ing sound. Doesn't seem to work with his right...

Harley
Author:  2CViking [ September 1st, 2010, 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
I test the compression in 2 ways.
1. Throttle closed looking at compression available at cold start. When cold most cars need some sort of choke activation
2. Throttle full on looking for compression available at full speed and hot starting

If the readings are low (too low) regardless of hot or cold, new cylinder/pistons are the cure. As Ken mention valves, seats and valve guides also need an overhaul. If conrod has too much vertical play in the big end and/or small end maybe consider another raw engine to work with.
Author:  2CViking [ September 1st, 2010, 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
Harley wrote:
ken wrote:
Neil,
( Has Rick invested in a torque wrench yet, or is he still guesstimating the cylinder head stud torques? :roll: )


Rick is a torque wrench :roll: ...

I watched him closely perform this procedure on 2008 Raid Australia, he simple draws his left testicle up into his lower abdomen, assumes a low, wide stance and then "torques" the studs until his testi drops back into place, which is evident by a loud CLUNKKKK!ing sound. Doesn't seem to work with his right...

Harley



That's right, real mechanics have built torque wrench in their elbows. :mrgreen:
Author:  Devils Advocate [ September 1st, 2010, 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
Hi Neil & Ken.

Yes, I completely appreciate it ain't good, and the engine is clearly running below par and would benefit from attention.

I was just trying to suggest that it didn't mean that an engine rebuild was 'essential' right now. With anything approaching a medium headwind, even a well-running 2CV will often struggle to top 60mph, so this particular car would likely continue to run 'reasonably' well for a few years - if that's what Neil wanted.

Ie: it ain't dead, just poorly!

And it had just passed an MOT, so clearly excess smoke wasn't an issue.

I think my preferred route would be to look out for a fairly decent 2nd engine (one that doesn't have a ruined bottom end, and could be brought back to life with a top-end restore) and carry out a refurb on this and have it ready for a quick swap when needed. Ok, the tricky bit is finding a decent engine in the first place... There's something a bit heart-dropping about taking apart your existing engine - hoping it'll be a quick job - and just finding there's more and more 'wrong' with it than you feared. The car is then off the road for however long that tales to sort.

Mind you, if the lack of compression is simply down to valves needing a good lapping...
Author:  Rhythm Thief [ September 1st, 2010, 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what would you do? poorly engine content...
My last 2CV had compression of 110 psi on each side too. So I changed the barrels and pistons, stuck a reconditioned head on one side (the old one was cracked) and lapped the valves, etc. on the other side. When I put it all back together the compression was still at 110 psi each side. I assumed that because it was the same with so many compression - critical components changed, it was ok, and it certainly seemed to go reasonably well.
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