Tracking is doing my nut in.
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Old-Nail
Firing on two.
Joined: October 7th, 2009, 12:10 pm Posts: 2192 Location: NWUK
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 Tracking is doing my nut in.
I'm seeking a bit of advice bout what to do next with this tracking that I've been fiddling with today, I'll tell you where I'm up to with pictures then you'll see what I'm on about. When I put the steering column in, I lined up the steering box below the gearbox mount so as to be central, I then put the column in at the straight ahead position. So as far as I know the steering wheel angle is, or should be correct. Now, what I have with the wheel at straight ahead are two tyres slightly toe in, with one further in than the other. I see from Haynes it should be 3 degrees toe out, but can't seem to get anywhere near.  On the drivers side above the wheel looks aligned with the car, and below is the amount of adjustment at this arm.  On t'other side however, with the steering in this same position (more of which later) the wheel has a mega toe in, the level of adjustment for this side is shown in the second pic down.   Right, now here's the thing. The offside wheel that appears straight in the pictures above only appears so when the steering is turned like this...  ...otherwise it's as toe in as the nearside one looks now, which then of course with the steering in the straight ahead position looks ok!  In the photo below you can see the position of the steering gear, and the angle of the steering column, so what do I try and do to get it right chaps? 
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May 22nd, 2010, 10:02 pm |
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ken
Agony Aunt - You have a car problem? Speak to Ken
Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am Posts: 3675
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Old-Nail, rather than estimating how the wheels are pointed, I reckon you need to nip out tomorrow and buy some builders' string line, also a couple of luggage elastics. Something such as this would be ideal for the line... < http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Builders-Line-Nyl ... _500wt_749 > Also dig out a couple of glossy magazines from the paper recycling bin. p.s. In the pics, is there a difference in the amount of thread projecting at each end of the adjusting sleeves? ken. ( More later maybe, got to do another taxi run to Doncaster Dome to collect some wreckage that's left after a gig by Pendulum.  )
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May 22nd, 2010, 10:45 pm |
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twofifty AZU
Firing on two.
Joined: May 16th, 2010, 5:04 pm Posts: 835
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Your track rods need to be the same length, ie the same amount of thread needs to be poking out from each sleeve. Once you've tracked it up properly with equal length track rods pull the column from its splines and straighten out the steering wheel.
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May 22nd, 2010, 10:57 pm |
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Joolz
Firing on two.
Joined: January 5th, 2009, 5:48 am Posts: 1687 Location: Haven't a clue
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Sorry Nail, I've read this a couple of times and I can't see where the problem lies. I would have done exactly as you have, centralise the steering rack by lining it up with the g'box mount, and put the column and wheel on so they're in the straight ahead position. Now without moving the steering wheel, I'd 'twiddle' the adjusters until the road wheels were correct. I wouldn't worry about getting the offside and nearside adjusters to look the same, although if they were very different I might wonder why. I would make sure that there was the same amount of thread in each end of either specific adjuster though, if that makes sense, and it looks like you've done that.
Incidentally I nearly always do mine by eye, because I can't be arsed to set up a bit of string. I look across the outside face of the front tyre, and line it up with just inside the outside edge of the rear. I'm sure it's not perfect, but the car drive OK and doesn't wear the tyres unevenly.
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May 22nd, 2010, 11:58 pm |
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Old-Nail
Firing on two.
Joined: October 7th, 2009, 12:10 pm Posts: 2192 Location: NWUK
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Joolz wrote: I wouldn't worry about getting the offside and nearside adjusters to look the same, although if they were very different I might wonder why. I would make sure that there was the same amount of thread in each end of either specific adjuster though, if that makes sense, and it looks like you've done that. That's the bit that's bothering me. If I get them both to look straight one adjuster is far more 'adjusted' than the other, which has me wondering why? Ken yes, the near side has more adjustment left on it than the other. The easiest thing to do here would be to leave the steering as it is, and adjust the n/s wheel toe in back out again as that is the side that has more adjustment left on it. That would give two aligned wheels but leave the steering wheel out of whack, and yes, I could pull it off and put it back on 'straight' but it would mean that the only datum that I have (the central wheel position) has been lost if that makes sense?
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 'Democracy my Arse'
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May 23rd, 2010, 12:11 am |
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Joolz
Firing on two.
Joined: January 5th, 2009, 5:48 am Posts: 1687 Location: Haven't a clue
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Makes perfect sense Nail, you'd be driving along, steering wheel quite happily in the straight ahead position, but you'd know in the back of your head that the rack wasn't in the middle. I don't know about you, but that would niggle me. The difference in the adjuster position required to achieve straight ahead, if it's only marginal it's probably just down to tolerances and I really wouldn't worry. If it's significant, it may be that one of the steering arms, the bit bolted to the wheel upright, has been bent at some stage in the car's past by heavy contact with a curb, but I probably still wouldn't worry.
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May 23rd, 2010, 1:13 am |
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twofifty AZU
Firing on two.
Joined: May 16th, 2010, 5:04 pm Posts: 835
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Your centre wheel position isn't a datum if you've had everything to bits. You're looking at this backwards. The centre position of the rack isn't determined by your winding the wheel from lock to lock, counting where the centre is and then adjusting everything about that point. The centre position is where the rack rests when the wheels are properly aligned and the car is driving forwards. The steering geometry won't function optimally if the track rods are of unequal length. The reason is simple. The tie rod describes an arc, if you change the X axis the Y axes also changes. Therefore the right and left rods need to be the same length otherwise the Ackerman angle on the wheels is incorrect. Old-Nail wrote: Joolz wrote: I wouldn't worry about getting the offside and nearside adjusters to look the same, although if they were very different I might wonder why. I would make sure that there was the same amount of thread in each end of either specific adjuster though, if that makes sense, and it looks like you've done that. That's the bit that's bothering me. If I get them both to look straight one adjuster is far more 'adjusted' than the other, which has me wondering why? Ken yes, the near side has more adjustment left on it than the other. The easiest thing to do here would be to leave the steering as it is, and adjust the n/s wheel toe in back out again as that is the side that has more adjustment left on it. That would give two aligned wheels but leave the steering wheel out of whack, and yes, I could pull it off and put it back on 'straight' but it would mean that the only datum that I have (the central wheel position) has been lost if that makes sense?
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May 23rd, 2010, 1:42 am |
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Russell
Firing on two.
Joined: November 29th, 2008, 10:05 pm Posts: 9259 Location: West Sussex, U.K.
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Follow kens advice, but first, undo the adjusters all the way and then refit them so there's the same amount of thread in each end of them, if that makes sense. I made a couple of box section brackets that bolt to the hubcap nut and locate on the rim, they project out in front of the car and you can measure the distance between them at two set points, one close to the tyres and one at the other end of the box section, if the measurment is the same the wheels are straight ahead. I set the rack and wheel central and placed two plates of steel with grease between them under the wheels. It's also important to make sure that you're setting the wheels parallel to the rears, as setting the tracking with the front wheels not in line mean that when the car's in motion and drives straight, the wheels will toe out further due to the Akerman effect.
For those who don't know, the Akerman effect is a means of ensuring that when turning, the front wheels turn two differnt arcs, as the inner wheels will turn to a smaller radii than the outer. This is achieved by the theory that an imaginary line drawn between the kingpin, the trackrod end and the centreline immediately between the rear wheels will result in the front wheels turning to the perfect arc, and therefore not scrubbing the tyres away.
Google it, or something.
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May 23rd, 2010, 9:56 am |
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2CViking
viking bastard
Joined: April 18th, 2009, 11:43 am Posts: 2424 Location: Meneac, Bretagne France
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
twofifty AZU wrote: Your centre wheel position isn't a datum if you've had everything to bits. You're looking at this backwards. The centre position of the rack isn't determined by your winding the wheel from lock to lock, counting where the centre is and then adjusting everything about that point. The centre position is where the rack rests when the wheels are properly aligned and the car is driving forwards.
The steering geometry won't function optimally if the track rods are of unequal length. The reason is simple. The tie rod describes an arc, if you change the X axis the Y axes also changes. Therefore the right and left rods need to be the same length otherwise the Ackerman angle on the wheels is incorrect. Very important point. The track rods should be the same length measured from the ball joints on the rack to the end of each rod including end housing. Look in Haynes how to adjust the sleeves etc. When same length is achieved, you can begin setting the toe in-out 0-3mm but adjusting both side equally, not 1 side only. Use the elastic string Ken mention. When done the steering wheel is fitted straight ahead for your type and either 8 or 4 o’clock club steering wheels.
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May 23rd, 2010, 10:06 am |
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Old-Nail
Firing on two.
Joined: October 7th, 2009, 12:10 pm Posts: 2192 Location: NWUK
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 Re: Tracking is doing my nut in.
Ok guys here's where I am. I used the string/magazine tricks to help with alignment, the string is currently centred through the hub cap nut of each wheel, should it be against the wheel rim? To arrive at a place where the two wheels are looking in alignment with the string I end up with 14mm of adjustment on the nearside compared with 9mm on the off side. These are the pics, offside first.    Nearside;   It's clear that by attempting to get these two even with the steering wheel central as it is currently fitted isn't working, do I really want to level them up and resituate the steering wheel then? That was my least favourite option, but looks the easiest way to get things level? I ask again just to confirm I'm doing right. 
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May 23rd, 2010, 1:58 pm |
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