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| Argentinian race intake?? http://www.international2cvfriends.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1596 |
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| Author: | Lars E [ April 19th, 2010, 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Argentinian race intake?? |
Hi, thought it is very cool to see other 2CV racers than those I have viewed in Europe, Fun to see that they have developed quite differently. I use my for meetings and drag race, so I do not build two so much after a rules as other 2CV races. So I am very interested in the data and dimensions of the intakes manifold uset. I am auto mechanic and can see that it is a very modern way to build them. How many hp and Nm makes the engine. And what is otherwise made by them, camshaft, exhaust? 
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| Author: | Russell [ April 19th, 2010, 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
I'm also curious as to why they have such long manifolds, so far nobody here seems to have a conclusive answer, maybe one of our South Americam members can shine a light on it? Does that fella like drilling holes or what? |
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| Author: | Mec [ April 19th, 2010, 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
I have no idea. I don´t like speed races. But I think isn't a race car... it has a pneumatic horn |
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| Author: | Sean [ April 19th, 2010, 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
Russell wrote: I'm also curious as to why they have such long manifolds, so far nobody here seems to have a conclusive answer, maybe one of our South Americam members can shine a light on it? Does that fella like drilling holes or what? i think that a longer inlet may have a bearing on torque, as the inlet can be a tuned length like an exhaust. however how it behaves with that plenum(?) chamber and the gas charge having to negotiate 2 right angled bends im afraid im at a loss to work out whats going on there. Sean |
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| Author: | Lars E [ April 20th, 2010, 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
here is another racing car 
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| Author: | Roy Eastwood [ April 20th, 2010, 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
Directly under the carburettor of those Argentine racers is a plenum chamber (common on V8 motors) intended to stop the reverse pulsing through the carburettor caused by the opposed cylinders taking their bit of the induction charge alternately. On a very small scale simply changing the the thickness of the carburettor spacer/insulator block can have the same effect. Pulse tuning of the inlet tract is very effective, many modern cars have variable ram tubes inside an inlet air-box (plenum chamber), with the 2cvs very obvious problem of 'stand - off', you'll see this spray of fuel if you run the engine with no air filter tube fixed, the best way to pulse tune is to do the pulse tuning below the carb., biggest problem though is that the atomised fuel tends to 'wet' the insides of the chamber & may arrive in globules rather than spray in the combustion chamber. Russell wrote: I'm also curious as to why they have such long manifolds, so far nobody here seems to have a conclusive answer, maybe one of our South Americam members can shine a light on it? Does that fella like drilling holes or what? |
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| Author: | Lars E [ April 20th, 2010, 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
have no problem with a wet intake manifold, I run with multipoint fuel injection. and can not just run with 2 separate intake as they do at 24 hours Belgian racers. Because I have a turbo fitted. I know of modern engine intake manifold, and pulse tuning Would like to build a manifold, which they run. just changed a little for my engine set up |
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| Author: | lpgo [ April 20th, 2010, 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
Hey Lars, do you really need a new manifold ???? At my Smart turbo 2cv I've made a simple but very effective manifold (look at the picture's/video's). When the turbo is making boost your manifold doesn't matter, because pressure goes everywhere. I think at a turbo'd car your exaust manifold is the more important side to look at, read make the way from the exit valves to the turbofan as short as possible so the exaust gasses are as hot as possible, and the flow has to be as smooth as possible. Did you know that the smallestpoint in a Smart turbo is less then a 1cm in diameter and all the exaustgasses have to pass there.... but that is what makes the turbo spin. At last, when I stop my wastegate to work my boost runs up to more then 1.5 bar; then I stopped because I was wetting my pants, the power wich then generates is far more then a 2cv engine (and I) can coop with. Im running now up to 1 bar of boost wich is fine. I crashed my first engine (locked up), when running .5 bar of boost for a long time, I think the engine was overheated probably overheated oil temperature (I think the oil gets very hot from the turbo) so now I'm saving money for an extern Oilcooler wich I can put at the oilfilter. Greets Geo. p.s. why don't you take a Smart turbo intercooler too, it's the perfect turbo for a 2cv engine. |
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| Author: | Lars E [ April 21st, 2010, 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
Both yes and no. There are several ways to make a turbo system. For daily driving with a quick response: 1-2 small turbo / s, for track race longer exhaust manifold, but the turbo of approx. same size. For drag race and high speed driving, long exhaust manifold and a large turbo. For inlet: Applies the same rules as by N / A tuning. everything that is good for a N / A engine is good for a turbo engine, lengths and diameters just adjusted in view of the pressure in the manifold is higher, (air is a little thicker under press) How many Hp, / Nm. are you up to? |
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| Author: | lpgo [ April 21st, 2010, 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Argentinian race intake?? |
I didn't do a Dyno (rolling road) yet, over here it is about 80 Euro's wich I want to spent at a extern oil cooler. I think I've got about 50 horsepower, with my original 2cv engine about 1 bar of boost. Let me tell you in another way, we've got a long hill (about 5km) highway were a normal 2cv does 90 kmh. My turbo 2cv does 120 kmh with no full throttle, but at the end of the hill my engine was gone!!! (oil to hot no lubrication rattle of dead, the end) When I do more boost (over 1 bar) then my engine starts to knock, I have already spark retard to 19 degrees (without turbo 34 degrees at LPG). So when I bring my compression down to 7/1 with an extra oilcooler I think I can do 1.5 bar of boost (maximum of standard Map sensor) 1.5 bar of boost will be 60+ horsepower. Another point is that my wastegate only does about 1 bar of boost over 1 bar it is locked up and then the engine goes like hell (I did this only once for about 2 km) I did'nt log it but I think it went for a moment over 2 bar of boost. |
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