Viking - For us who have little experience (the number of cars I own is not based on my technical skills to keep them going....only one works...just !). What do you mean by do it right ?

This was not a thread started by myself, but caught my eye as I have the same problem. Is there another way of doing this ?

Maybe the "oversize pins" option from Knightley and blackjack then ?

I see Kens as being easier, but on my car the problem is just with the top bush. So I wondered about doing what Russ said but just just going around the top.

The bottom bush on mine is fine, all the wear is in the top. Can you get oversized pins to compensate for that ?

Dam I thought this was a solution to a problem I have avoided for ages !

Deviating from ‘’the correct’’ way of working mechanics eventually ends in tears. Doing the job properly, not taking shortcuts, always gives the best possible result.
Bush mechanic or back yard operation is ok to get one out of trouble but not for long term and daily work.
Fit oversize kit or replace the arm with good condition used. Ask why the king pin hole is too big…!!!!

Squeezebox,
the top and bottom bushes are fitted to the hub carrier, loss of interference fit 'twixt kingpin and suspension arm is a separate consideration altogether.

All that the run of weld does is shrink the bore in the arm by a few thou to restore the interference fit.

Anyhow, there's a certain irony in folk pontificating about the supposed dangers of 'bush engineering' when discussing a component which is usually assembled with a 2kg lump hammer and a drift...

ken

Ken - that's very true - the Citroen 2CV kingpin system is just not very good. I don't understand why the the pin fits in the eye with an interference fit. The Ford system uses a cotter pin to hold the kingpin in place in the eye and the bushes come over-sized for pressing into the hub carrier and they are then reamed to size. There's a grease nipple for each bush - so no messing about with beating in a welch plug or fiddling with a threaded plug (with threads that are not up to the job). The upshot is that it is unheard of to have to throw away a Ford axle because the kingpins can't be replaced anymore.

I know that your welding practice works - but I can understand why 2CViking doesn't like it. For my part I would go with the oversized kingpin on a car I was going to keep for a long time but have no problems with it on a car I just wanted to keep on the road.

Squeezebox - with regard to your loose top bearing, the solution is to replace the hub carrier or to ream the top hole and have an oversized bearing made up. You should be able to find an engineering company who can do it for you.

I have a problem with grease leaking from the welch plug and threaded bottom plug leaking grease on my car. Can't seem to get it to stop so I'm thinking of having the recesses milled out and turning up a pair of plugs with a groove for an O ring from stainless hex bar (leaving a thin hex section so I can get a flat spanner on it) that would be held in place by a threaded rod going right through the kingpin. While that is being done I would fit the oversize pins (getting the eye line reamed so as to ensure a straight hole). I'd probably fit a second grease nipple as well. Regular greasing should then ensure that replacing the kingpins is a job that can be done by my kids when I'm gone

If you dont like it, dont do it! Im buggered if im paying out for new arms just because of a sloppy kingpin hole, if it keeps it going for a few more years for no money at all then im all up for it. Its not like kingpins, even in so called 'butchered' arms fail very often is it?
I prefer the method of welding around the hole as i like to think it shrinks the hole slightly 'rounder' but im willing to be proved wrong. It works, its not dangerous, its virtually free and it keeps a 2cv on the road for another few years. Wheres the problem?
From my point of view i'd rather somebody remade the eye part of the arm instead of oversized pins but i guess thats just down to cost.

Snazzy auto darkening welding hat just arrived. I've just spent an entertaing few minutes in the kitchen in my dressing gown with it on my head, clicking a lighter in front of it and watching everything go dark. Now I'm off back to bed for a bit.
My welder only goes up to 100 watts, or so I presume from the model name. Is this going to be hot enough?
As for the oversize pin option ... I thought about that, but I presume I'd have to have the hub carrier machined to accommodate the larger bushes. That put me off, because I know I'd just never get around to having it done.

You just need to ream the arm eye 0.1mm or 0.2mm (depending on which oversize you go to) bigger to get it back to round and an interference fit on the new pin.

You don't need to do anything with the holes in the hub carrier because the new top and bottom bearings have a standard OD.

Welding does get the car back on the road easily, cheaply and safely as has been pointed out - so there are no immediate down sides. Of course, it's up to you how you do it - but in 10 years time you can be sure that people will be looking to see if the arm eyes have been welded and that will affect the value of the car.

Reaming out an OEM eye by 0.2mm and inserting a bigger pin will have no effect on the strength or safety of the arm - removing the eye by grinding off existing welds and welding in what will presumably be a Chinese pattern part would be fraught with problems at every stage with multiple chances to get it all wrong.

Auto-darkening welding helmets are well worth the money. Try also a decent work light and a set of stronger glasses if you normally wear reading glasses. Tell your optician how close you want to get and they will give you the right strength. You really need to see what's going on with that weld puddle.

My verifocal specs require a lot of head nodding to get a decent view of the weld pool unless I'm welding at exactly the right angle - perhaps a pair of welding jam jars called for ?

blackjack,
I've got no problem at all with Citroen's design for A series kingpins, the real problem is those folk who damage components when removing and installing replacement pins.

For instance, using the wrong type of drift when removing a pin will mushroom the top of the pin, which then gouges the bore in the arm as it's driven through, destroying the original interference fit.
Similarly, grinding out the recess for the Welch plug can result in its sides being tapered, not parallel, with leakage of grease inevitable.
Not too sure how the threads for the lower plugs suffer damage, perhaps it's lack of care when starting the relatively fine pitched thread?
I've found a few where a hammer has been used to install the threaded plug...

Curiously enough, the 'bush or backyard' operation which I did on the arm pictured below resulted in an assembly which was grease-tight where it ought to be.

I doubt whether the owner is bothered about a possible reduction in the car's future value because the arm has been welded, especially as I've been looking after it for about 20 years.
As long as it's still roadworthy and can carry on racking up about 10,000 miles a year, that'll do nicely.

ken
( p.s. Why would it be necessary to line ream a single bore? Isn't that only required where there are two or more bores or bearings which need to be in perfect alignment? )






Seating Welch plug by slcchassis, on Flickr



Expanding Welch plug by slcchassis, on Flickr



Greasing kingpin after fitting. by slcchassis, on Flickr