Hello all,

Well today I took the points box right off to have a look and to see about trialling a 123 I've been lent.

Once I'd got the weights off I found that one of the pins that the weights attach to on the end of the camshaft is wobbly.

The pins don't seem to screw into the plate, the loose one rotates and wobbles freely.

Has anyone come across this before and has an answer? How are the pins attached to the plate?

The brassy coloured plate that the pins are attached to looks like it is peened to the end of the shaft - is it possible to beat the tabs back to get the plate off? (access is hard though to say the least!)

Only other thought was would it be possible to weld or braise or epoxy the loose pin rigid again? (balance / vibration prob maybe)

As always any help appreciated, oh wise gurus!

Hmm a bit worried about no replies even from the expert ken shaun vikings of this parish, was worried I may be in a serious situation - unknown territory, never been done before, change the camshaft - yikes!

However, found that the part can be bought from Franzose, though not as far as I can see from Ecas.

http://www.franzose.de/en/Citroen-2CV/A ... /ANR10485/



So in theory it must be possible to get the old one off and a replacement put on by de-peening the peens and then re-peening. Whether it can be done in situ is a different question though, But I suppose I'll try it knackering some screwdrivers with a hammer in the process and we'll see...

Xmas,
those pins are held in by having their inner ends rivetted over.
The usual reason for one working loose would be that the advance weights have been dragging on the back of the cover plate behind the points box.

As you mentioned, first choice would be to dig the welder out and zap both pins, then you've got no problems with balance.

On the other hand, if you decided to replace it, you'd need to remove the existing item and in that case, why not repair the old one?
Shouldn't take much more than popping it in a vice and a few taps with a hammer.

As regards refitting it, I've seen a few of these plates which have had to be welded back onto the camshaft nose 'mid 24 hour race' when the original peening has fretted loose.
I'd try peening it first, with a few dots of weld as a second option if the peening doesn't look as though it'll hold...

ken

sorry bud been out in the car for a trip thru the borders in glorious sun then taught a 5yr old to go her bike without stabilizers........there are more important things than the pc and 2cvs.

not unknown for the points carrier to self distruct ours went 18 hrs into the spa24 we welded the cam to the nose of the camshaft and ran fixed timing!

yes you can peen those new carriers or a rescued one from an oterwise toast cam DC did it when he fixed the welded cam, he just peened each corner bit on the hex....i wanted to weld it. Think Spanners did the whole nose and carrier...or was talking of doing it to a race cam

the whole nose thing can be removed from the cam by going in thru the oil pump but its an engine out job and a very long 6mm drift!

ECAS may not list it but would be worth phoning Roy?

Shawn

Sean

Cheers guys you're the best.

Not having a welder myself to weld the pin(s) I'll attempt to de-peen and re-peen and see how it goes, will post up results here. Will also give Roy a call, though I do have a spare engine so will check the condition on that one and possibly swap...

Sorry Sean

Xmas,
I had a go at removing one of those plates from a scrap camshaft today and it took some doing...

So, if yours isn't already a bit loose, it's probable that you'd need to drill out the original peening to get it off without damage.
Only problem then would be how to re-attach the blighter.

If I was you, I'd find someone to weld the pin(s).

ken

Hi Ken,

Well I too had a go today popped over there on my lunch-break. I've missed the boat as far as pin welds now, although that may have been the best option like you said, without my own welder to hand and not knowing anyone with the skills locally who I could trust I've gone for the removal method.

A very gentle tap tapping on the peens with a small sharp screwdriver, tapping each of the four peens back towards the centre, doing each in turn and cleaning, looking and feeling each one, I went around all of them tapping about three times round with the small screwdriver.

Then, once I had a nice little step formed on each one, got the slightly larger screwdriver and went around gently tapping each again in a circuit. Between times checking the plate to see if it was free.

Then a gentle as possible prise using the big screwdriver as a lever, again prising a bit in each quadrant rotating the engine as I went, and finally - one corner started to wiggle and ping off it came. (made really sure to note the position of the plate at the point where it came off!)

All this gentleness and finess is intended to damage the peens as little as possible so that when I attach a new one I can re-peen the peens. From the looks of it I may also be able to put a new peen between each of the existing ones to give eight in total when putting back on.

So far so good, lets see how fitment goes then!

Chris.

Pictures in next post of peens tapped back, and plate removed.

pictures

Back to the garage for another lunch hour today. This morning a new plate arrived from Ecas very reasonable price.

Tapped the new plate into place the same orientation as the one that came off, using the remnants of the original peens to orient. Used the following to make sure it went on straight, the spark plug socket fitting nicely over the end of the rod and exerting an even load onto the plate.

Didn't need much heavy persuasion, just more tapping, and the plate went on squarely and tight.
Then trial fitted the borrowed 123, to check for sure that the orientation was correct, the setup light was coming on and going off right around the point where the static timing pin was inserted so that was fine.

123 off again and set to re-peening, again using the little screwdriver to get them started with the larger one to finish off once the peens were established and large enough for the screwdriver end to fit. Again progressive tapping and turning until all four peens were nicely bent over the plate and everything seemed secure.

Decided against creating any new peens, it seems secure enough, and if the 123 is a success the plate will not be load bearing only carrying the magnets, so I'm hopeful that I've done a good enough job that it will hold together. I'll take another look to check once I've finished trialling the 123
Refitted the 123, set the timing and test drive up up to 60+ with no problems.

In case you're wondering I've written this up in detail and with pictures so that if anyone else has this issue they can use this as a reference And if it all explodes and falls to pieces I promise to update this thread so that you can Learn From My Fail.

Chris

ps. Ken, there were no score marks on the back of the points box rear plate so the original pins hadn't been dragging on it as far as I can see, the pin must just have loosened over time I suppose

Top job

To prevent any further rubbing on your oil cooler tubes, stick some flexiable tubing on.

Sorry big photo, was looking for the spiral cable types you just turn on.