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 Engine rebuild - some questions 
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Firing on two.

Joined: February 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Posts: 567
Location: NOrWAY
Post Engine rebuild - some questions
I'm putting together an engine for the upcomming roadtrip this summer.
Got two questions I hope to get some advice on:

Valve-seals. Original from Citroen. Two of them has a "golden" spring on them, the other two has a black spring on. I can't find a word about this in the manuals, if there is any words about who goes where?!
The engine-workshop that did the valve-job on the heads put on the valve-seals when they were done, and talented as they were, they have put them on different on the two heads.
Do I have to take of the springs/valves and switch over the two seals on one head? Or is it ok to let it be as is? This is bugging me!!

Flywheel bolts. I have forgotten to order new ones, and I'm in a bit of a hurry to get the engine done now. Can I re-use the old ones? Just clean them up and put some thread-lock on them, and torq them by the book? 40-45 Nm? Hope it's ok with re-use. What do the experienced of you lot do?

And just remebered one more thing.....I know it's impossibel to judge this without a picture, but.... I've got an oil-cooler whitch has some damage in the front. Someone has bent/dented it a bit in the front trying to do something. (It's from a spare engine from a wreck)
It seems ok. I've cleaned it and there are no leaks from it.
How sensitive are these things from damage? Any experiences with this?

Would be nice to get any thoughts on these things!

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Five 2CV's, DS 21 ieh Pallas -70, DS 23 h Pallas -75, CX 25 GTi automatic -89, XM 2,0i -90
And a Heinemann Z412 -80


June 21st, 2011, 12:29 am
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Agony Aunt - You have a car problem? Speak to Ken

Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
Posts: 3675
Post Re: Engine rebuild - some questions
Eirikj,
Gold spring = exhaust valve, 8.5mm stem diameter.
Black spring = inlet valve, 8.0mm diameter.
Engine shop = nitwits, as they really should have realised how difficult it was to force an inlet valve stem seal onto an exhaust valve. :(

Ideally, flywheel bolts should be replaced after one use, as the specified torque subjects the bolt stem to a tensile stress beyond its elastic limit.
Re-use them at your own risk...

If it's only the fins of the oil cooler which have been dented, a small amount of localised damage shouldn't matter too much.
When you first start the engine, leave the fan off and run it for 5 to 10 minutes to bring the oil up to temperature, keeping a watch for any signs of leakage when the engine is run at higher speeds.
(Unfortunately, that procedure may be at odds with the best method of running in new pistons and barrels, which should be loaded up as described on STP's site)

ken



nice to get any thoughts on these things![/quote]

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June 21st, 2011, 1:38 am
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Firing on two.

Joined: February 17th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Posts: 567
Location: NOrWAY
Post Re: Engine rebuild - some questions
Thanks a lot Ken. 24/7 service? ;)

Damn those engine-shop folks. I would have asked if I was them, before put them on, as I would think there is a reason for the difference in color on the stem-seals.

Can I change them over, or do you think they are destroyed?

I will try and order some bolts for the flywheel, in a hurry.

Regarding the oil-cooler, I have one un-damaged one, but it sits on a engine whitch I suspect have internal problems(big end bearings or something that makes knocking sounds under load). In the manual it says the cooler should be replaced if bearings give up. I assume because that metallic parts stays in the cooler, and will ruin a new engine?
Can you not clean the cooler good enough?

Any tips on how to get a stuck cooler of an engine without breaking the pipes?

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Vennlig hilsen, Eirik
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Five 2CV's, DS 21 ieh Pallas -70, DS 23 h Pallas -75, CX 25 GTi automatic -89, XM 2,0i -90
And a Heinemann Z412 -80


Last edited by EirikJ on June 21st, 2011, 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.



June 21st, 2011, 2:02 am
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Agony Aunt - You have a car problem? Speak to Ken

Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
Posts: 3675
Post Re: Engine rebuild - some questions
Hi Eirikj,
not normally 24/7, but spent today sorting out stuff to throw away, racking and stacking gearboxes and engines and seem to have overloaded the wobbly back.
Still got a few fingers of Captain Morgan's 'general anaesthetic' to work through...

Re. stem seals, if you're lucky, the bore of the inlet valve seal may not have been gouged when it was forced onto an exhaust valve, but only inspection will decide.

It's when a big end lets go completely that there will be flakes of bearing material dispersed through the engine, even embedding themselves in the pistons. :shock:
If it's just (light?) knocking under load, that's unlikely to have happened.
I've always flushed second hand oil coolers with petrol, then blown them through with compressed air at maximum setting on the regulator, this procedure repeated a few times and never had any problems which could be related to this method.

Heat + penetrating oil may free off the oil cooler retaining nuts, but if that doesn't work, 10mm copper tube with a brass olive soldered onto the tube will make new 'feet' for the cooler.
To connect to the upper part of the cooler, use standard 10mm compression fittings or high pressure hose with stainless jubilee clips. ;)

ken.

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June 21st, 2011, 2:49 am
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Firing on two.

Joined: April 22nd, 2009, 11:06 pm
Posts: 3684
Location: Ecosse
Post Re: Engine rebuild - some questions
Eric, that siezed on oil cooler, heat and penitrating oil/diesel and rather than trying to un wind the nuts in one go, just wiggle the nut back and forth untill it frees on the pipe then move it on a bit then wiggle it a bit

spent nearly an hour doing this on one recently only to find that the pipe had been split along its seam be a ham fisted previous owner.

Flywheel bolts - they are the same thread as M7 so I place a M& tap so that the thread of the tap meshes with the thread on the bolt, if the bolt has been stretched then the first few threads mesh but they start to mis match further = up bin job!
Bolts are a bit like elastic bands if you put a band on a roll of papers and its not stretched it falls off if you stretch the band it grips, stretch it too far and it snaps. being hardened bolts the elastic limit is within the last 10% of the bolts strength and so sometimes you get a set of bolts that haven't been permanently stretched.

New bolts is the way to go to be safe

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June 21st, 2011, 8:11 am
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viking bastard
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Joined: April 18th, 2009, 11:43 am
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Location: Meneac, Bretagne France
Post Re: Engine rebuild - some questions
No need to add anything to the above except that I re-use fly wheel bolts but only one time. Done this for years and never had any of them snap.

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June 21st, 2011, 10:29 am
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Firing on two.
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Joined: March 5th, 2009, 6:23 pm
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Location: Near Monmouth
Post Oil Cooler Repair
Perhaps not new...
But the Oil cooler pipes can be replaced/repaired with 10mm copper pipe and fittings.
(Havent yet had the need to fit on an engine)
See pics.
The fittings can be of the compression type with an "Olive" or the soldered type.
In the UK these are obtainable from any plumbing merchant.
Example of a compression fitting.

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June 21st, 2011, 11:11 am
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viking bastard
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Joined: April 18th, 2009, 11:43 am
Posts: 2424
Location: Meneac, Bretagne France
Post Re: Engine rebuild - some questions
Seen a similar set fitted on Visa engines when 2cv6 oil coolers are fitted except the tubes were flexible hoses. Priced at 80 euros for the set :o

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June 21st, 2011, 1:26 pm
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