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 Cold weather driving tips needed! 
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Location: Hawkins County, TN. USA
Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
jasu wrote:
turbofiat124 wrote:
So it's finally started to get cold here in NE Tennessee. Not that I have been looking forward to it or anything.


Are you really trying to tell that is cold..? :lol:

Coldest what I have experienced with my Dyane, was -42C. Without re-jetting carb. And nowadays, with EFI, some degrees below -30C and everything worked like a charm...



WOW that is cold. On average the coldest it get's here in the middle of January is around -3C and about 7C during the daytime. The coldest it really gets is -9C.

But occasionally we will get an arctic blast. Last winter we hit -22C! I think on that particular night it was colder here than in Alaska which makes no sense at all.

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November 14th, 2016, 1:42 am
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Joined: June 22nd, 2014, 8:09 pm
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Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
Brr! Worst I've seen here was -12 and that was exceptional.


November 14th, 2016, 9:46 am
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Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
turbofiat124 wrote:
Nelsthebass wrote:
Normal perceived wisdom on a grill muff is on at 10C and below, off above 15C - if the carb is original and not been re-jetted, the primary maybe too small for modern fuels and could be running too lean - primary jet - the little fecker that's accessed via the nut/plug at the right rear of the carb looking from front of car - if it's not original, should be marked 1.07 or larger if it's a 26/35 Solex


Good point. I've been running e10 93 octane (RON+MON/2 method) since I've had the car. They say engines get 15% less mileage on e10 versus 100% gasoline. I have not found any evidence of that to be honest.

I don't know what you guys are using now for an octane scale so here is the equivalent chart.

http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/octan ... sions.html

I know this car does not need premium fuel but the guy who owned it before me was not a car enthusiast. He was a contractor and took the car in leau of payment for some work he did on a guy's house. I thought perhaps the fuel in the car was quite old so I figured running 93 for awhile might purge some of the stale gas out. That's my theory anyway.

The car did seem to run better this morning using the cardboard muff. It was around 30F or -1C.


Please please don't go near any more rubbish E10 fuel or equivalent, especially as I believe the percentage of Ethanol in it in the US is considerably more than here in the UK/EU. Rotting rubber hoses and disolving brass jets come free with this stuff. It doesn't like copper, either. I heard a tale a few months ago about the classic bike scene and how owners have, over time, used Petseal to seal and refurb old metal fuel tanks and now the use of E10 is just disolving this sealant and specialist firms have been innundated with work to rectify this, using an E10 compatible sealant. Needless to say, this hasn't done the bike engines any favours, either.

Mine runs very well on the high(er) octane stuff we have over here and, together with a larger main jet, so should yours. As Ian points out, todays petrol is totally different from the petrol in use when these engines were designed, and destined, I think, to get worse due to the fact that most cars are fuel injected now so the need to refine petrol for carburated engines is fast disappearing.

Oh yeah, -1C isn't that cold! :lol:


Last edited by Chris2cv on November 14th, 2016, 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.



November 14th, 2016, 10:09 am
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Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
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Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
Kit,
to be technically correct, the question should be 'what size jet for a Solex 26/35 carburettor fitted to an A series with Dyane/Ami style forced induction'.

Citroen didn't bother altering the jetting for carburettors installed on those cars and got away with it on the earlier (21-24 venturi) carburettors because the original jetting on those was slightly 'rich' of stoichiometric.

Not exactly sure when the changeover to the later (18-26 venturi) version took place, but the Dyane I bought new in 1980 had one of those and suffered badly from a lean mixture on part throttle openings.
It went back to the dealer at least 4 times whilst under warranty and had several changes of carburettor, none of which cured that problem.
Once the warranty expired, I drilled out the primary petrol jet and that fixed things, or at least it did until leaded fuel was no longer available, after which even the earlier carburettors needed rejetting.

So, which which version of the 26/35 carburettor is installed on your Dyane and is the 'forced induction' hooked up? :roll:


kitwhite wrote:
What about jet size for a Dyane carb :roll:

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November 14th, 2016, 11:25 am
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
Chris2cv wrote:

Please please don't go near any more rubbish E10 fuel or equivalent, especially as I believe the percentage of Ethanol in it in the US is considerably more than here in the UK/EU. Rotting rubber hoses and disolving brass jets come free with this stuff. It doesn't like copper, either. I heard a tale a few months ago about the classic bike scene and how owners have, over time, used Petseal to seal and refurb old metal fuel tanks and now the use of E10 is just disolving this sealant and specialist firms have been innundated with work to rectify this, using an E10 compatible sealant. Needless to say, this hasn't done the bike engines any favours, either.

Mine runs very well on the high(er) octane stuff we have over here and, together with a larger main jet, so should yours. As Ian points out, todays petrol is totally different from the petrol in use when these engines were designed, and destined, I think, to get worse due to the fact that most cars are fuel injected now so the need to refine petrol for carburated engines is fast disappearing.

Oh yeah, -1C isn't that cold! :lol:


I'm not an advocate for e10 by no means. Using corn to make alcohol only drives the price of food up. Since allot of food contains corn products. It also drives the price of feed up so now beef, chicken and pork costs more.

The theory behind e10 is that the chemicals used as anti-knock additives cost more to produce than ethanol. Ethanol is something like 114 octane (RON+MON/2).

So e10 costs less than 100% gasoline with the same octane rating. Just like back in the days with leaded gasoline, TEL was cheap to produce.

The pumps over here say "May contain up to 10% ethanol". What does that mean? My guess is premium fuel has 10% ethanol but the lower octane stuff may contain only 5 to 8%.

The only issues I've had with e10 is on small engines with gravity feed fuel systems. Particularly my father's stuff (lawnmowers, tractor, pressure washer). He does not top off his tanks so after awhile this stuff evaporates and leaves a gunk behind which clogs up the float valves and or jets.

Cars with fuel pumps, I don't worry about it as much. Also cars with vented fuel caps are more prone to absorbing water than those with sealed fuel systems.

I've gotten to where I try to keep the tanks full so the fuel does not evaporate and moisture in the void won't condense and attract itself to the alcohol and sink to the bottom. But I run 100% gas in my small engines even though all lawn equipment built after 2009 say it's OK to use e10 but not any higher than that. My guess is all the seals and rubber are made of neoprene.

For some reason I don't trust e10 in 2 cycle engines so the only car I run 100% gas in is my Trabant which also has a gravity feed fuel system. Maybe because I doubt alcohol mixes with oil.

My fuel injected Fiat 124 Spider which is not driven that often, I add e10 treatment to it. This stuff is supposed to keep the alcohol/water suspended in the gasoline and not allow it to sink to the bottom. But does not protect the rubber seals.

I don't know if this stuff works but I've been running e10 in it for over 5 years with no issues. I replaced my fuel lines with Gates LOL neoprene hoses ages ago so that might be why.

My daily drivers like my '03 Subaru and my '98 Chevy van I never add any additives to it and have never had any problems.

I have heard of people having issue with rubber fuel lines and busted carburater diaphragms on 2 cycle weed wackers and leaf blowers but for some reason can't say I've ever seen it actually damage rubber. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Bottom line is, ethanol drives up the cost of food products. That's why I am not a big fan of it.

For what one descent meal costs over in the USA (my wife, my daughter and me), I can fill my 2CV up with about 3 or 4 tanks of petrol!

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November 15th, 2016, 7:48 am
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Joined: June 22nd, 2014, 8:09 pm
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Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
Ditto, I don't like it at all. Its ridiculous. I saw a study of the effects and it wasn't good at all.
I run a couple of 80's fuel injected Mercs too and the occurrence of disastrous fuel leaks (sometimes total loss of car to fire) and running problems for owners in the US, is tragic. We just don't seem to have the same problems here yet, with less ethanol in our fuel.

I wrote to the big petrol companies because we'll also be going to E10 at some point, and I found only Esso Super is currently ethanol free here, so I use that, even in my lawnmower. (It's not ethanol free in every County, most though.) Other than that we are still on up to 5%.

Really bad news for older cars.


November 15th, 2016, 11:13 am
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Joined: August 31st, 2016, 12:12 pm
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Location: Hawkins County, TN. USA
Post Re: Cold weather driving tips needed!
Ianredspecial wrote:
Ditto, I don't like it at all. Its ridiculous. I saw a study of the effects and it wasn't good at all.
I run a couple of 80's fuel injected Mercs too and the occurrence of disastrous fuel leaks (sometimes total loss of car to fire) and running problems for owners in the US, is tragic. We just don't seem to have the same problems here yet, with less ethanol in our fuel.

I wrote to the big petrol companies because we'll also be going to E10 at some point, and I found only Esso Super is currently ethanol free here, so I use that, even in my lawnmower. (It's not ethanol free in every County, most though.) Other than that we are still on up to 5%.

Really bad news for older cars.


The weird thing is here in the city of Kingsport, the price of 100% gasoline seems to be almost $1.00 more per gallon. But just across the border in Virginia it's only about 30 cents more per gallon. I'm not sure why. So I drive over there any buy about 30 gallons at a time. It's only 5 miles over there but sort of out of the way since I have no other reason to go there.

I know $1.00 per gallon extra sounds like chump change compared to the UK.

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November 15th, 2016, 1:13 pm
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