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 My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory.. 
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Firing on 1-2 Spark
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Joined: November 8th, 2009, 5:42 pm
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Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Quote:
Phoaarr look at the length of that!


1. braggart
or
2. Size does matter..

Please make your choice..

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March 25th, 2015, 6:16 pm
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Firing on two.
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Joined: October 5th, 2009, 8:22 pm
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Location: Stone, Staffs
Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
ken wrote:
Martyn,
guess you haven't tried KYB dampers yet?
They really are 'shocking'... :lol:


smyth602 wrote:
Any shock is better than no shock.


Ken - I have used them on both the Beige Beast and the current Celeste and tbh they are not that bad - they are certainly better than shot LIPS and don't give excessive kangaroo hops - seem to keep the wheels in contact with road OK and both Scooba Steve and myself are what you would class as "enthusiastic" drivers and don't give excessive under steer - suspect batch control might be dodgy to give variable results......

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2014 Suzuki Swift Sport
2015 Lexus NX300h
1966 Ami Break


March 25th, 2015, 8:11 pm
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Agony Aunt - You have a car problem? Speak to Ken

Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
Posts: 3675
Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Nelsthebass wrote:
Ken - I have used them on both the Beige Beast and the current Celeste and tbh they are not that bad - they are certainly better than shot LIPS and don't give excessive kangaroo hops - seem to keep the wheels in contact with road OK and both Scooba Steve and myself are what you would class as "enthusiastic" drivers and don't give excessive under steer - suspect batch control might be dodgy to give variable results......


Nels,
I'd doubt that could be classed as a valid comparison, mine is based on how a car behaves with a good set of Boge or Lipmesa dampers fitted, or properly set up friction and inertia dampers.

I've copied some of the correspondence between Jakub (Saurus on the forum) and myself after I'd bought a set of KYBs and been less than impressed by their behaviour.
I'd guess that not only is the damping effort in both directions lower than it should be for use on an A series, but the bias is in the wrong direction, so that the rebound damping is much too weak.
After having them on the car for a couple of days, I couldn't tolerate the 'sagging' feeling over any sort of rough road surface, so removed them and fitted a set of Lipmesa out of the 'not for resale' box. :lol:
The KYBs can go to anyone who wants to pay me what I wasted on them...

p.s. Having looked at Jakub's video again, it's clear that the rebound 'damping' is similar to the set I fitted.
About a half of two-thirds of SFA.
Batch control? Consistently useless, more like... :roll:

"Ken, today I went to a vehicle test (like your MOT, but annual) and I was a little shocked.
Last year, with worn Lipmesas, I got over 70% rating of the efficiency of both front & rear damping.
This year, with new KYBs, I got 28% front, 1% (yes, 1) rear. I was a bit shocked,

I have made a video of the back of my car with KYB dampers
http://youtu.be/AGVZVf1jK4M
Is this anything like yours was?
There is an audible hiss on rebound, and on the first bounce the body slows almost completely down, I think the last few very short movements are just the spring cans moving buffer to buffer. The car does not feel wallowy when driving and I don't know whether I should try LIP shocks while I can still get some, or just leave it be."

"Hi Jakub,
you've beaten me to it with a video...
Because my wife's Dyane has an 'adventure' bumper fitted on the rear, you can use that to push down and pull up, so I was planning to take 3 videos for comparison; first with no dampers, then with KYB and lastly Lipmesa.
With the Lipmesas fitted, it's not possible to build up much amplitude of displacement, but with KYBs, I can get it 'almost' to the point where the rear wheels come off the ground.
With no dampers, it's not that difficult to bounce the rear wheels clear of the ground.
"

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Last edited by ken on March 25th, 2015, 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.



March 25th, 2015, 10:02 pm
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 6:05 pm
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Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Thanks guys, Ken I never thought of that but I see what you mean, I shall loosen the shock nuts. I'll just have to try and remember to tighten them when the car's built up.

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1989 2CV6 (what's a D*lly?), 1989 MG 1275 powered mini, Renault Trafic.


March 25th, 2015, 11:16 pm
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Joined: October 5th, 2009, 8:22 pm
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Location: Stone, Staffs
Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
ken wrote:
Nelsthebass wrote:
Ken - I have used them on both the Beige Beast and the current Celeste and tbh they are not that bad - they are certainly better than shot LIPS and don't give excessive kangaroo hops - seem to keep the wheels in contact with road OK and both Scooba Steve and myself are what you would class as "enthusiastic" drivers and don't give excessive under steer - suspect batch control might be dodgy to give variable results......


Nels,
I'd doubt that could be classed as a valid comparison, mine is based on how a car behaves with a good set of Boge or Lipmesa dampers fitted, or properly set up friction and inertia dampers.

I've copied some of the correspondence between Jakub (Saurus on the forum) and myself after I'd bought a set of KYBs and been less than impressed by their behaviour.
I'd guess that not only is the damping effort in both directions lower than it should be for use on an A series, but the bias is in the wrong direction, so that the rebound damping is much too weak.
After having them on the car for a couple of days, I couldn't tolerate the 'sagging' feeling over any sort of rough road surface, so removed them and fitted a set of Lipmesa out of the 'not for resale' box. :lol:
The KYBs can go to anyone who wants to pay me what I wasted on them...

p.s. Having looked at Jakub's video again, it's clear that the rebound 'damping' is similar to the set I fitted.
About a half of two-thirds of SFA.
Batch control? Consistently useless, more like... :roll:

"Ken, today I went to a vehicle test (like your MOT, but annual) and I was a little shocked.
Last year, with worn Lipmesas, I got over 70% rating of the efficiency of both front & rear damping.
This year, with new KYBs, I got 28% front, 1% (yes, 1) rear. I was a bit shocked,

I have made a video of the back of my car with KYB dampers
http://youtu.be/AGVZVf1jK4M
Is this anything like yours was?
There is an audible hiss on rebound, and on the first bounce the body slows almost completely down, I think the last few very short movements are just the spring cans moving buffer to buffer. The car does not feel wallowy when driving and I don't know whether I should try LIP shocks while I can still get some, or just leave it be."

"Hi Jakub,
you've beaten me to it with a video...
Because my wife's Dyane has an 'adventure' bumper fitted on the rear, you can use that to push down and pull up, so I was planning to take 3 videos for comparison; first with no dampers, then with KYB and lastly Lipmesa.
With the Lipmesas fitted, it's not possible to build up much amplitude of displacement, but with KYBs, I can get it 'almost' to the point where the rear wheels come off the ground.
With no dampers, it's not that difficult to bounce the rear wheels clear of the ground.
"

Sorry Ken I'm not going to get personal but I have driven more miles in a year than most 2CV owners do in a life time and I can say that I really know what driving in a car with OK shockers is a "valid" comparison again ones that are fubar'd! Tbh I have not used KYB on the rear, with the longer stroke I guess they might not be suitable, but the front ones have always been fine with little rebound - I have been fortunate that the only ones I've fitted (hasten to add not from ECAS) have been stamped Made in Japan - could there be terrible Chinese copies out there per chance?

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1987 2CV Special
2014 Suzuki Swift Sport
2015 Lexus NX300h
1966 Ami Break


March 26th, 2015, 11:26 pm
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 6:05 pm
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Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Quick update, I split the engine and box on Saturday.

Removed calipers and discs
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And removed the box from the engine.

I removed the clutch to check for wear, It's Valeo, (original I think?) the thrust bearing and the clutch disc are pretty worn and although it drove fine before I ripped it to bits I think it could do with changing whilst I'm at it, I would appreciate anyone else's opinion on this.. What's the best clutch kit to get? I normally just get whatever Euro car parts can offer me. The flywheel is fine, just slight surface rust where it's been sitting in a damp garage.

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I also painted my brown rod.
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Pretty incredible I think you'll agree.

I also pimped up some other bits
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I started trying to fit the fuel tank but realised I had no m7 nuts and bolts or washers, so considering how many seem to be used on A series Citroens, I ordered a heap from eBay.

On checking the fuel gauge sender I discovered why the fuel gauge wasn't working before
Image

Soldered
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I also found a novel handbrake adjustment method utilised by a previous owner
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Quite impressed the handbrake has enough force to slightly squash a toupee.

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1989 2CV6 (what's a D*lly?), 1989 MG 1275 powered mini, Renault Trafic.


March 30th, 2015, 10:35 pm
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Firing on two.
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Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Yeah the two p or ten francs is pretty standard.

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March 30th, 2015, 10:54 pm
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Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
Posts: 3675
Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
No worries, Nels, my comment wasn't meant to be personal, except for the part aimed at KYB. ;)
Fwiw, I've driven only A series Citroens since 1980, which must by now cover several hundred individual cars with dates of manufacture spanning early 1950s to the end of production, so have a fairly good idea of how these cars should handle.
The highest mileage I've done in a year is close to 30,000, when I was daft enough to deliver chassis myself.

It's interesting that you say that KYB front dampers are OK, since I only fitted the rear pair out of the set of four and was so disappointed with those that I never bothered fitting the front ones.
They're all stamped 'Made in Japan', although that is no guarantee that they're not fakes, but depending how testing of the front set goes, KYB will know when I've sent them back to base...


Nelsthebass wrote:
Sorry Ken I'm not going to get personal but I have driven more miles in a year than most 2CV owners do in a life time and I can say that I really know what driving in a car with OK shockers is a "valid" comparison again ones that are fubar'd! Tbh I have not used KYB on the rear, with the longer stroke I guess they might not be suitable, but the front ones have always been fine with little rebound - I have been fortunate that the only ones I've fitted (hasten to add not from ECAS) have been stamped Made in Japan - could there be terrible Chinese copies out there per chance?

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Last edited by ken on March 31st, 2015, 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.



March 31st, 2015, 12:18 am
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Agony Aunt - You have a car problem? Speak to Ken

Joined: March 6th, 2009, 1:40 am
Posts: 3675
Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Peter,
while the gearbox is out, there are some 'preventative maintenance' tasks it's always worth doing.
One is staking/peening the selector ring on the 2nd/3rd gear sliding pinion, which tends to 'unwind' during
reversing.
Another is checking the rear bearing on the mainshaft, which tends to be the one to wear out first in these later gearboxes.
Finally, connected with the previous item, is the fact that the rear nuts on the mainshaft and pinion shaft loosen with use, with only the feeble staking used by Citroen to prevent a nut spinning right off its threads. If/when that does happen, a replacement rear cover is always needed.

Info on these here...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... QFE-5UB1Wn

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... QFE-5UB1Wn

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... QFE-5UB1Wn

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@ ... MA1-9456q4

The fingers on your pressure plate look as though correct free play of the pedal hasn't been maintained, or somone was very fond of riding the clutch. :roll:
Best to replace the lot, as the release bearing will probably have been constantly engaged.


panelbeaterpeter wrote:
I removed the clutch to check for wear, It's Valeo, (original I think?) the thrust bearing and the clutch disc are pretty worn and although it drove fine before I ripped it to bits I think it could do with changing whilst I'm at it, I would appreciate anyone else's opinion on this.. What's the best clutch kit to get? I normally just get whatever Euro car parts can offer me. The flywheel is fine, just slight surface rust where it's been sitting in a damp garage.


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March 31st, 2015, 12:35 am
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Post Re: My new 2CV, running restoration. In theory..
Thanks for that info Ken, when Martin was over he mentioned the gearbox bits and did show me how to peen the selector ring, we checked and it looked like it had been done pretty well in the factory but I'll do it anyway, can't do any harm. I'll also double check those other things.

There might be a bit of a wait before any more updates, I need to order a load of stuff and I'm "El Skintio" as they say in Taramasalata.

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1989 2CV6 (what's a D*lly?), 1989 MG 1275 powered mini, Renault Trafic.


April 1st, 2015, 12:23 am
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