Still here!

I've been putting off this post for ages, essentially because there has been lots of cutting out bad stuff and taking things apart, and not yet that much putting things back together again. While I'm sure the taking apart is necessary, it's not great for morale to end each day thinking 'what have I achieved today? Cutting my 2cv into ever smaller peices. Hmm...'
Anyway - it's been ages since I've given an update, so I thought I'd go over the situation so far;

Engine;


Dah daaah!
Found another engine on the bay of e, turned out it was my DT teacher selling it! I had snapped the pipe going from crankcase to oil cooler, and after unsuccessful experimentation with aluminium solder, found it was cheaper to get an engine than a new oil cooler - so I've nicked the one off that for my 2cv (I have many plans for that other engine, don't worry )
Condenser and points replaced and timing set statically, (Great fun trying to get the fan off!) and I also have a strobe now, so I will check the dynamic timing when I get the engine running again.
Quick wipe with some petroly rags to get the worst of the oil off (It looks better in the photo) and all of the cowling + rocker covers + breather etc. etc. have been painted with hammerite (I don't know if hammerite is specific to the UK? Basically thick, rust preventing paint)

Some people seem to paint engines really beautifully, and keep them immaculate - but I just can't see the point - it's an engine! The finish doesn't look too bad, but there are obviously some 'bits' from doing it outside.
I got a gasket set for the engine, so I opened up the oil pump and checked all the tolerances, cleaned it thoroughly and put back together (With new gasket)
The set also has new pushrod gaskets, so I might as well replace them. From what I can see, take the rocker cover off, and the oil pipe, unscrew the cylinder head and lift off?
Still on the engine - I'm not planning on separating the crankcase halves (They work - I don't think there's anything I can do make them work better - just involve lots of work) Piston and cylinder, I wasn't thinking of doing anything with until they stopped working, would it be worth replacing piston rings? Valves - do they want any attention? I've heard of grinding paste and everything, is it worth doing?
Tappets etc. I don't have a clue about. The haynes manual has a bit on setting tappet gaps etc, didn't make much sense to me but I'll look though it again with an engine in front of me and see whats to be done.
That's about it for the engine I think, the gearbox I was just going to replace the oil.
Now, here comes the main bit. I just cleaned all the flaky rust off the body - this is what I'm left with;









I had an Easter of mostly free time, so I investigated the body more thoroughly. I had been planning to repair a couple of patches on the bulkhead, do the other door pillar, and take it for it's MOT on monday! (well not quite that naive, but you get the picture.) Just poking with a screwdriver on the upper bulkhead revealed both sides were rotten, the top and bottom was almost entirely seam sealant! Literally - the only thing's holding the upper bulkhead in place were the parcel shelf, seam sealer, rust and prayers! For a moment, tempting just to put everything back, spray it with something to make it look nice, and pretend the last 20 minutes hadn't happened...
There didn't seem much point repairing it in situ, as I could get to other areas more easily with it out, so I drilled the spot welds holding it onto the parcel shelf, and took the whole thing out. Surprisingly, all of the middle is more or less fine, it's just the edges that are non existent. Since one can only get left hand drive upper bulkheads, I thought it would be just as much effort to convert a new one as to repair the old one. It's in the shed awaiting attention now.

Further down, everything was covered in a thick layer of stonechip? Underseal? Something thick and black anyway. It looked immaculate, I thought I'd take back a few patches to check. The whole of the lower bulkhead/toeboard thing was very rusty, and resembled a large slice of emmental... The floors I was sure were fine, yet poking with a screwdriver, the 'tophat section' boxy bits were rotten, and the screwdriver went right through the floor in several places! Part of me would like to lovingly restore them, fabricate new boxy bits and get them all looking lovely. On the other hand I'm sure they have been replaced some time before, they don't look original. Also in the interests of time, and given the equipment I have, the lack of soundproofing and the proximity of neighbours I think it might just be much simpler to get a new set?
Then came an offer from a neighbour, to keep it outside his house, where I wasn't in danger of being run over all the time.
Looking underneath the van section of the body, the actual floor looked all right, but several of the crossmembery bits were looking very sorry for themselves.
I decided to get the body off and sort out all of those bits, because as far as I can see, those sections are unavailable new now. Then I could get new bulkheady bits and floors sorted out, put it back on the chassis to ensure everything was aligned, and weld into position.
As I understand, it would be better to get sills, door pillars, bulkhead and floors sorted out before taking it off the chassis, to keep it all in shape, but I only have access to this space for a limited time, and presumably the main reasoning is so as to prevent distortion. If I sit it back on the chassis before fitting the new things, surely it should all be fine? And I've welded in some temporary bracing. It should be all right.

Then I looked at getting the body off. 20 nuts....Hmm, there must be more to it?
I'll just rock it a bit, see if it's lose...
**** it nearly fell off! Yup, that's all that's holding it on

Then literally just picked it up, then put it on it's side down on some polystyrene. Bit of an anti-climax really, I was expecting loads of bits to go wrong, things needing undoing at the last minute, heavy things being dropped on toes...but no. 8)
There is a big cross member thing where the front floor things meet the van floor things, very iffy, continual tinkling sounds, leaving a trail of brown powder everywhere...
I asked at the local farm shop, and they do metal fabrication, so they have made up some new parts for it. I took the plunge, and cut some out to get a look inside...
I think it has been repaired three times by the look of it, one on top of the other. What I assume to be the original is only evident in the form of various flaky bit of metal, the next repair, very holed, and not a very good fit, the third not many holes, but rusty, a bad fit, and wobbly :S
I've finally managed to cut all of this out, and fit the new parts I got fabricated.
This was the old seatbelt mounting plate (Yes I do mean that pile of rust in the center of the picture!)
Then I have a cross membery bit that the rear bumper thing attaches to to fit (Looks like fun :S) A part has been made up for that, but getting it in looks difficult.
Other than that, all those crossmembery bits are relativly good, just surface rust. Bit of patching, then I'll wheel the chassis back up, and fit bulkhead + floors and all that etc...
On a more positive note, I've taken it back so far, I don't think there can be many more hidden surprises!

Finally the chassis. It is a galvanised one, I would guess from '2cv city'. It looks fine, no signs of corrosion etc. As it's galvanised there's no point in painting it is there?
Would it benefit from a wax-oil or something?
The spring cans cans have been lubricated and the squeaking has completely stopped in one can. The other one simply will not turn, even with both wheels lifted off the ground. Should I have another try at rotating it? Or when it's being driven, will the lubricant spread itself around by itself?
Cosmetically they look all right, I don't know if I should do anything more with them or just leave them be? (Paint?)
wheels + tires bit tired, but I have a lovely new set all ready and waiting that came with the van. Maroon wheels with firestone tires.
All the steering components from a 'grab it and wiggle it' perspective are fine, in my opinion, but I need to actually measure all the 'camber' and 'toe in' and 'tracking' etc...
Suspension arms, steering rack etc. etc... Do they want painting? Is there anything to be done about the bearings? Just lots of greasing, or should I disassemble them and clean, put back together?
I read somewhere about fitting another grease nipple to the steering rack, is that worth doing??

So - there it is!
I'm going to try and get all the work underneath the van part of the body done soon, get the chassis all ready, and join the two back up again fairly soon. From there I can work at my own pace to get sills, door pillars, floors and toeboards replaced, repairs etc..
The engine/gearbox is just sitting in the shed, so there is no urgency to get that done.

It's frustrating all these delays, I've had a week of solid exams, and another two to come, and whatever free time I have is currently trying to get a functioning mobylette, as I need it for school. My last exam is on the 30th of june, then I should have the whole of July/August to play with a 2cv! (minus a week in France to possibly pick up mobylette/2cv parts )

Wow, looks like you're really getting stuck in, you'll learn a lot that way. The first time I pulled an engine apart I snapped the oil cooler pipes too, shame really, I was only taking it off out of curiosity. Do any of the experts have any special tips for undoing the unions?

If you do take the cylinder heads off to change the pushrod tube seals, while you're in there clean all the carbon off the piston crown and off the cylinder head, and take the valves out and clean the port and the back off the valve. My personal favourite for cleaning valves is to put the stem in an electric drill, put the drill in a vice and the hold the corner of a chisel against the spinning valve to scrape all the crustiness off. Then do the grinding paste thing to make sure they're seating well.

If the engine was running alright before you started I wouldn't bother pulling the barrels off. Check the tops of the bores for a step that would indicate wear but if it's fine I'd leave them on. You could certainly learn something by taking them off and checking the piston ring clearances, but that might just be how awkward they are to put back. As they say, 'If it ain't broke... ', plus it looks like you've got more than enough work to do on the body shell.

When you come to putting the heads back on, be very careful to locate the pushrod tubes in the crankcase properly, or its very easy to damage their ends.

Suspension cans, if you've got a rubber donut each end then yes they should turn, otherwise they're seized onto the mounting tubes located in each end, and that prevents the suspension from doing the very clever thing that it does to give it's amazing ride quality.
If on the otherhand AKS 400s don't have the rubber donuts(I don't know vans that well) then the only advantage to being rotate the spring can, is spreading the oil about, and may be it's even meant to be tight. Bear in mind that if it is seized the longer it stays that way the harder it'll be if it ever does need to come off.

Good luck!

paint the arms, waxoil stuff come to that later when its rolling ( dinitrol and bilt-hamber are the ones people seem to recommend),
you should brace up your body to keep it in shape before you start cutting structural stuff out which i think you said you had done, maybe some one like russ could tell you weather its easier to weld on or off the chassis, as he is doing a van this weekend I think.

Well done, nice work, I guess your next two exams are maths, im not sure how heat proof hammerite is??

Just statistics left to go now (3 hour exam!)

Yes, there is some bracing in there. But presumably, if everything is securely mounted on the chassis in the correct position when the new stuff is welded in, it shouldn't make that much of a difference?

[quote]Wow, looks like you're really getting stuck in, you'll learn a lot that way.[/quote]

Exactly! I could have just taken it to a specialist to sort out, and given the amount of costly mistakes I've made, it might even have worked out cheaper, but this way I learn how to do it myself, and hopefully next time a) I wont make the same mistakes and b) It will be considerably cheaper than taking it to someone else to repair. Anyone ever read Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance?

I think I might as well get the heads off and sort all that out. I don't want to finish it, only to have to take it all apart again. Having said that, cylinders and crankcase I think I will leave well alone for now. They work fine!

And the spring cans I will probably end up investigating further, I want to see for myself how all of this legendary suspension system works!

Finally, having seen how extensive the rust is on the underside, despite appearing fine beneath a layer of stone chip, what is the best thing to do to prevent it re-occurring??
At the moment, all exposed metal I am giving a couple of coats of acid etch primer to prevent rust, but in the long term what should I use? Another layer of paint on top of that? A thick layer of stone chip again? Wax-oil etc?? I really don't want to have to get the body off for a long time!

The on;y advice i can give about welding a van is be careful when the floors are bulkhead are cut out as the front of the van roof will pop forwards and is a cock to get back in again. I suggest cross bracing the door apertures beforehand, although it'll be an arse to get in and out of.

Good luck.

Penultimate cross member finished today, just the one that the rear bumper attaches to now. Looks like fun!



Pop forwards as in, the center of the roof will bulge outwards? Or roof, windscreen surround etc. will all move forwards?

I'll do that cross bracing, pics of progress to follow.

Any ideas what to do with the underside before I get it back on again though? I'm slightly reluctant to put stone chip or whatever was on there before, because the water has just crept behind it and sat there rusting away. I want it to be a long time before the body comes off again!

Thanks

Finished exams!

Last one: statistics = 3 hours of trying (and succeeding) to make a 6 tier card pyramid. The examiner said 'no' to a 7th tier...

Anyway, here's the latest on the structural bodywork underneath;

That's the boxy bit between front and rear floors. Replaced with slightly thicker, but more importantly, rust free metal. The seatbelt mounty bits have new plates as well, as the originals were nearly non-existent.



That's the cross-member behind the one in the first picture. The pictures are fairly self explanatory really, all the bits that were originally one piece of metal, have been fully seam welded, but welded in short strips to prevent distortion. Also, I've borrowed a proper spot welder from school, so used that on the strip where it was originally spot welded. Tomorrow hopefully, I'll grind back what needs grinding back, put some seam sealer on there, and give it some paint.
Then the last bit, the rear cross member

Then it can go back on the chassis, and have the front sorted out!

Well the rear cross member has finally been cut out, the replacement is being adjusted to fit etc.

Jut a quick question about the engine though, it is a standard 602cc, but at some point someone has put disc brakes on it, and a lighter flywheel. I'm not concerned about converting it back to drum brakes for originalities sake, but on another engine/gearbox I've got, the disk brakes have little cooling shrouds, with pipes coming from the fan cowling.
My problem is that my cowling doesn't have the holes, and the other cowling is rotten beyond (reasonable) repair. Being a van, brake fade would presumably be a worse problem than a car due to the extra weight?

Do I cut 'oles in my cowling and fit shrouds? Do they really make much of a difference anyway? Surely with the discs constantly spinning, they should get quite a lot of air anyway?

Any opinions?

most people throw the cooling shrouds away. i got told that, unless you live in a hot country, they are not much use. but since mine are still on there and work im not fussed about taking them off.
Also, a lighter freewheel, (someone correct me if im wrong) but dont you lose tractability up hills etc with them? would this be worse on a van?

From the Ecas page on tuning -


And to my mind, given it's a van I would happily sacrifice instantaneous faster acceleration, for tractability up hills.

I do have a heavier flywheel, and contemplated putting it on, but I've just been given a brand new clutch by a friend who brought it by mistake. Don't the heavier flywheels have a different type of clutch? Or is it interchangeable?

And thanks about the shrouds, think I'll go without, maybe put them on if I find I can't stop!