International2cvFriends.com :: View topic - Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK

Jonathan wrote:

I think you can make a very clear difference between pollution created by burning ethanol sourced from crops, and petrol that is sourced from fossil fuel. Ethanol that's burnt to power engines will release CO2 into the atmosphere, just like regular petrol, but the CO2 that is released had been recently captured during the growth of the crop in the field. Petrol releasing the same volume of CO2 is adding to the volume already there. So burning ethanol is certainly more environmentally sound, because the CO2 released will be recaptured during the following growing season. Fossil fuels are releasing CO2 that has been locked away for millions of years, so it's adding to the present natural levels in the environment. :geek:

Author:	Geert [ February 1st, 2017, 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
Chris2cv wrote: AZS wrote: But that's done somewhere else, so we can conveniently ignore it Oh yes, of course. Silly me. Strangely, this argument can also be applied to electric cars with uncanny accuracy, can't it? And how about cheating-sofware from VW and others ?Made in Germany , Japan, etc. It is all bullshit , we know it, they know it , the respective goverments know it. What is the purpose of it ? Saving the envirement is a fairy-tale .

Author:	subarupete [ February 1st, 2017, 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
Ethanol is mostly made from Biomass eg Wheat, sugar cane and others, so reduces the land used to grow food:(

Author:	Jonathan [ February 1st, 2017, 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
I think you can make a very clear difference between pollution created by burning ethanol sourced from crops, and petrol that is sourced from fossil fuel. Ethanol that's burnt to power engines will release CO2 into the atmosphere, just like regular petrol, but the CO2 that is released had been recently captured during the growth of the crop in the field. Petrol releasing the same volume of CO2 is adding to the volume already there. So burning ethanol is certainly more environmentally sound, because the CO2 released will be recaptured during the following growing season. Fossil fuels are releasing CO2 that has been locked away for millions of years, so it's adding to the present natural levels in the environment.

Author:	Jonathan [ February 1st, 2017, 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
It also works with the burning of wood or charcoal. They are more environmentally sound than burning coal, for exactly the same reason as using ethanol, provided that trees cut down for fuel, are replaced with new trees. It's all about keeping the natural levels balanced.

Author:	Ianredspecial [ February 1st, 2017, 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
That makes sense Jonathon. Cars are less efficient using ethanol though, so does that offset anything I wonder. The less land available for food argument has been around since rapeseed started being so popular and used for fuel. I'm not enjoying seeing what appears to be the effects of ethanol on the old Mercs I'm into - in the US this is though, no such problems here that I'm aware of. Bad fuel leaks due to perished hoses, and catastrophic fires But then they have things like E85 to deal with. Those old barges I love are rated as being tolerant of E10 at a maximum. The real issue I feel is that people just drive everywhere now and don't even consider walking or other methods, which is totally bonkers when you see the distances involved. I strongly feel that we are abusing things badly by doing this and being so lazy. If we weren't so bleeding lazy collectively, the problems we have with fossil fuels, pollution and black filth all over everything, might not be anywhere near as bad. Makes me sad

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Author:	Jonathan [ February 1st, 2017, 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
I can't see there being a big difference in fuel consumption between regular petrol and a petrol with ethanol added. Even if it was somewhere in the region of 10 or 15%, that is the percentage of CO2 volume that is produced.I'm not entirely sure how to put it in words, but however more inefficient an engine runs with ethanol, the big question is always answered the same way. It's a closed system. Burning neat petrol is an open system. It adds additional CO2 to the atmosphere. Carbon capture is one route to take. Another option is renewables. Orkney has taken a very interesting step away from conventional power generation. Watch this video, which I think might well open your eyes to the possibilities of renewable power generation in the UK.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXe1hBvlylw You may want to watch a lot, if not all, of the vlogs Robert Llewellyn has made. (He's the chap who plays Kryton on Red Dwarf).

Author:	Jonathan [ February 1st, 2017, 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
Here in Shetland the council has invested in EV charging stations throughout the archipelago. There's one a mile down the road from me. There are over a dozen all over the islands. A regular electric vehicle, something like a Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe, has a real world range of around 80 to 100 miles. I work a little over 4 miles from home. I have three shops on the island, all within a mile and a half of my house. I tend to pop down to Lerwick once a week, or maybe once every other week, which is around 55 miles. There are quite a few fast charge EV points, which charge a 60KwH battery in about an hour. I tend to spend a good part of the day in Lerwick, so that is far more time than I need to put enough charge back into the battery to get me home. Of course, if I had plenty of money, I'd buy a Tesla that has a range of well over 200 miles, but I can't afford the price of one of those. There are at least 2 of them in Shetland already.

Author:	Nelsthebass [ February 2nd, 2017, 12:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
I had a Tesla for a short period due to tragic circumstances - it was the fastest car I have ever driven, and I have driven a lot of cars over the years, but on the Shetlands would be wasted!

Author:	Chris2cv [ February 2nd, 2017, 11:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Non Ethanol Fuel in the UK
Jonathan wrote: I think you can make a very clear difference between pollution created by burning ethanol sourced from crops, and petrol that is sourced from fossil fuel. Ethanol that's burnt to power engines will release CO2 into the atmosphere, just like regular petrol, but the CO2 that is released had been recently captured during the growth of the crop in the field. Petrol releasing the same volume of CO2 is adding to the volume already there. So burning ethanol is certainly more environmentally sound, because the CO2 released will be recaptured during the following growing season. Fossil fuels are releasing CO2 that has been locked away for millions of years, so it's adding to the present natural levels in the environment. :geek: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't internal combustion engines produce Carbon Monoxide (CO) not Carbon Dioxide (CO2)? Or is that something else the scaremongers have been convieniently ignoring? CO2 is nothing more than a perfectly natural gas, everything that respires (and that includes humans) produces CO2 quite naturally. That CO2 is indeen taken in by plants and, using photosynthesis, turned into energy for the plant, the by-product of which is O2, oxygen. Somewhere here I have the chemical equations for both photosynthesis and respiration, they show that they are self balancing equasions. Therefore, the more CO2 in the air, the more plant growth there will be to balance that and the more O2 released. Something else these's hoaxers have chosen to convieniently ignore, methinks.

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