Some good sites for info on 3CVs and the IES cars:
http://www.cocheargentino.com.ar/i/ies.htm

And much as I love Citronet I find it can be a pain to navigate so here's some direct links.

Superamerica 4x4:
http://www.citroenet.org.uk/foreign/latin-america/argentina/ies4x4-1.html

IES Gringa
http://www.citroenet.org.uk/foreign/latin-america/argentina/gringa2.html

Pics of Argentinean built cars.
http://www.citroenet.org.uk/foreign/latin-america/argentina/argentina1.html

I like them in a wierd way. They kind of remind me of geoffs s-cargo.

ok need someone to correct all my wrongs here...

but the 3cv was basically the 2cv marketed in southern america, they were built by a company called IES which was a merge of citroen and another manufacturer? i believe they had the 2cv first, and then when france kept the name 3cv when the 602 was fitted, in argentina they named it the 3cv, there are the earlier azam models which dont look to unusual from our's just with bigger bumpers, then came the 3cv prestige model which was essientially a 2cv with a dyane boot/roof and dyane rear lights.. after that came the IES AMERICA... which unfortunately i dont like very much at all...they look from the inside like an early 70s 2cv, big dash but no door trims etc but with really old style door mechanisms. that was upgraded and became the IES SUPER AMERICA... which had the enlarged windscreen(no vent flap ), completely different interior.. both the america/super america have the horrible set in wing headlights. i could be wrong... but did these 2 come with a different suspension set up? or was that just the IES America based pick up thing they made?

btw sam, first picture is IES 3CV, second is IES SUPER America, third is the IES America Van... not too sure what they actually called it though...

Officially, the 602 stuff is 3cv by the same horsepower rating which first deemed the name '2cv' (two cheval vapeur, or 'steam horses'), because of the power hike it went up a class but I guess the name just stuck?

That's my best guess, why it changed in South America I don't know, but it makes more sense!

That is correct Russ. The fiscal(tax)rating in France was set by engine size, the original 2cv(375cc & 425cc) were 2cv. The later cars with 435cc were 2cv, the 602cc is a 3cv, but everybody in France(and beyond...except Argentina )had accepted the name, so it stuck(a good thing,I think).

The original Traction Avant with 1300cc engine is rated as a 7cv, the later 1900cc is rated as an 11cv. The 15cv Traction Avant, had a straight six 2867cc engine.

The Renault 4 was a 4cv(as was the original Renault 4cv, of 1946/47-1960)750cc engine. There was a version of the R4, called a Renault 3 (603cc), but I believe it's now very rare.

The way the French taxation worked, meant that the bigger the engine, the higher the tax (obviously), but the way it was calculated meant that the cost increased greatly as the engine size increased(very cheap on a 2cv, very expensive on a 29cv).

Hope that answers the question and you haven't nodded off

very interesting read that! thanks.
Joe

Ah the Renault 4... the second choice after the 2cv for me (and potentially still affordable!)



Does anyone know why these wonderful cars never seemed to enjoy the longevity and obsession of the 2cvs, beetles and minis...? Seems to me it's cut from the same cloth and by jove it's pretty!!

I was interested in buying a 4L this week but the owner pulled out. A tidy resprayed one with Alpine alloys.
There were 5 million made.
Real rust buckets though. And don't share the 2CV's cornering abilities. More prone to toppling over.
I like em.
A lot are used in France now for a "Quatre L Trophy" charity rally between students who have to do fundraising, get the car sponsored-up and take school stationary to Marocco. Lots of desert.
A few freinds of mine have done it. One still drives his as a daily a couple of years since. So pretty tough.

That rally version is really cool. I like these cars. My friend has rebuilt few of them and they are rare here.

A little history on the Renault 4..

In production from 1961-1993ish, numbers built 8million+(so more than the 2cv and Mini), oh....and a copy of the 2cv!! Renault was state owned after the war, till the 80s or 90s and they 'acquired the services' of former Citroen personnel, who basically took the research that Citroen had done and used it to create the 4. It was so obvious at the time, that Citroen management wrote to Renault management to complain and ask for compensation. The reply they received was less than polite....Basically, something along the lines of:- "If you continue to take this matter further, then we will, without hesitation, use the French governments might, to finish you off as a company". or words to that effect. They pretty much told Citroen, that to mess with Renault, was to mess with the French State and that is tantamount to treason. Needless to say, Citroen quietly forgot the complaint.

The reason for the greater numbers of R4s as against the 2cv is quite simple, Renault used marketing tactics that made buying a R4 over a 2cv more favourable to the general public and they also used a ploy, where an owner of a 2cv could part-exchange to a R4 and get an unbelievable deal(in other words, Renault would make a sizeable loss on the car, it didn't matter, it was state-owned ).

Hope that didn't bore you too much