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 A worrying sign of things to come 
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Old Bloke

Joined: May 25th, 2009, 11:39 am
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Post A worrying sign of things to come
There has been a change in some French law which I suspect will go through the EC eventually.

Currently in France, to sell a car it must have at least 18 months of the CT [MOT] remaining so that the new owner can register it. If the car is a restoration job and doesn't run it has been possible up to now to have a none running MOT. In that way a basket case can change owners legally and a new log book issued to the new owner.

It seems that the none running MOT has been scrapped. Any car now changing hands must now have a current [not less than 18 months left on it CT] So you can't buy a project.

Further more you cannot buy or sell cars "for spare". These can now only be sold to licensed scrap dealers.

In the long run this will see a lot of salvageable cars destroyed and the availability of used parts becoming very difficult.

Whilst this doesn't affect the UK [for the moment] it will eventually.

If you read French check this link.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 7375.xhtml

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December 21st, 2009, 12:32 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
grifftravel wrote:
There has been a change in some French law which I suspect will go through the EC eventually.


It'll get heavy opposition from FBHVC & FIVA...

Quote:
Currently in France, to sell a car it must have at least 18 months of the CT [MOT] remaining


That's one thing that's never (yet) spread outside France, despite being in place over there for quite a while (since the CT started?)

Quote:
In that way a basket case can change owners legally and a new log book issued to the new owner.

Further more you cannot buy or sell cars "for spare". These can now only be sold to licensed scrap dealers.


Hmm. Can't be SOLD, or can't be REGISTERED IN FRANCE? Different things, of course.

I strongly suspect it'll die quietly, ignored by everybody. Let's hope so...

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December 21st, 2009, 12:44 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
I think this has something to do with the 'Waste management' post I did a while back. This law exists within member states of the EU, and a similar interpretation of it has been used recently to prevent a Preston garage owner from keeping a 'spares' car. Perhaps it isn't enforced more here because it is buried amongst the avalanche of EU laws and directives already existing, but no doubt can and will be cherry picked by UK councils to apply when it suits them to.

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December 21st, 2009, 1:05 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
Old-Nail wrote:
I think this has something to do with the 'Waste management' post I did a while back. This law exists within member states of the EU, and a similar interpretation of it has been used recently to prevent a Preston garage owner from keeping a 'spares' car. Perhaps it isn't enforced more here because it is buried amongst the avalanche of EU laws and directives already existing, but no doubt can and will be cherry picked by UK councils to apply when it suits them to.


I'm less sure. I can't find much about the Freckleton case other than rumour & "Scandal!" - except that it appears to have been _at least_ three years ago. The only fairly concrete article I can find is one from Classic Car Weekly - and that's got definite implications that the yard was in A Bit Of A State at the time it was investigated.

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It also seems as if the gentleman in question was somewhat less than reputable, according to the thread I found that in :-
http://julianreynolds.forumup.co.uk/about1010-15.html

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December 21st, 2009, 1:17 pm
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Old Bloke

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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
toomany2cvs wrote:
Hmm. Can't be SOLD, or can't be REGISTERED IN FRANCE? Different things, of course.

I strongly suspect it'll die quietly, ignored by everybody. Let's hope so...


Seemingly its both Adrian. When we sell a car we have to advise the prefecture now anyway. If the car is not registered to the new owner within a certain period of time they contact the old owner to know what's going on.

I suppose one way around it is to says its been sold abroad.

The French do seem to take on EU law PDQ but as you say then tend to forget about it. Lets hope so.

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December 21st, 2009, 1:19 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
toomany2cvs wrote:
I'm less sure. I can't find much about the Freckleton case other than rumour & "Scandal!" - except that it appears to have been _at least_ three years ago. The only fairly concrete article I can find is one from Classic Car Weekly - and that's got definite implications that the yard was in A Bit Of A State at the time it was investigated.
It also seems as if the gentleman in question was somewhat less than reputable, according to the thread I found that in :-
http://julianreynolds.forumup.co.uk/about1010-15.html


Hmmm I wonder if it's the ruling itself that has just been made but the actual case has been dragging on for that amount of time? As you say the garage owner doesn't sound on top of his game either, which would perhaps make the local authority search and find a suitable law under which to nail him.
How old is that CCW article?

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December 21st, 2009, 2:29 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
Old-Nail wrote:
How old is that CCW article?


The forum thread is 2007, and the article was apparently a year old then.

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December 21st, 2009, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
Wouldn't such a law violate again some sort of free(dom) of trade laws, cause basically one is free to sell anything he or she owns, it would be strange when this wouldn't be allowed anymore...
Otherwise, what does this new law say about "giving away" a car with less then 18 month CT...?

Merry christmas, Bart

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December 22nd, 2009, 12:15 pm
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Post Re: A worrying sign of things to come
I've just had a reply back from the Secretary of the FBHVC...

Rosy Pugh wrote:
Adrian

Our legislation committee asked the French Federation about your query and this is their reply:

Quote:
Yes, the text attached is correct (had to be!) but is specifically geared toward the specific profession of "démolisseurs-récupérateurs" (those professionals who demolish or trade parts of non running vehicles).

Once again, one has to distinguish, as often in France, between the letter and the spirit of the Legislation. A vehicle is considered by the French Code de la Route as a "bien mobilier" (which I translate as "mobile good", like a piece of furniture, unlike a building which can not move) and the owner can do what he wants with it, as long as he does not endanger anyone else's life (safety). The gendarmes close their eyes on all these private exchanges or sales of parts at autojumbles throughout the country and the public authorities do not question all these adds for "non running cars" in the specialised press.

So you still can buy parts or complete non running 2CVs in France.

The Contrôle Technique will have to be passed once the car is restored and in a proper running condition. Since there are indeed no CTs for non running cars, you must restore your "mobile good" before going to the test centre and use it on the road.


Regards

Rosy Pugh
Secretary, Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs Ltd
Stonewold
Berrick Salome, Wallingford
Oxon. OX10 6JR
(Registered office)

Tel: 01865 400845
Email: secretary@fbhvc.co.uk
Registered in England, Company No. 3842316. VAT Reg. No. 636 7886 83

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December 22nd, 2009, 12:16 pm
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