2cv's and other A models are made from metal thin as cigaret paper. No mater what you do to preserve this skinny metal, rust worms will eat the bloody thing quickly. The only way is a galvanised chassis, wash the horrible salt off the car and park it inside a warm garage. If left to the elements you can rebuild them every 10 years no matter what rust ''protection'' you give it.

I don't particularly want to turn this into a pissing contest. However the simple fact is that there is nothing especially magic about stopping steel from rusting. Steel wants to turn itself back into its natural state, if you don't allow it access to oxygen and an electrolyte it struggles to do so.

Metal is relatively unaffected by pure oxygen or pure water. In order for corrosion to form the three need to interact. When you add salt into the mix it becomes much easier for rust to take hold as you then get an electro chemical reaction. Even something as simple as hosing the road dirt from a car with clean water significantly slows down corrosion. Making sure panels can dry out properly slows down corrosion. If you let mud, mulched leaves and so on accumulate you create an environment that promotes rust.

Rust prevention isn't a dark art, mostly it translates into not being lazy about keeping the car clean.

Zinc based primers work because the zinc forms a sacrificial layer. Rust proofing waxes work because the decent quality once will creep into the seams on a car and drive moisture out. The wax seals the metal and prevent water and oxygen getting to the steel. Painting steel works because it seals the steel again preventing oxygen and water from getting to the steel.

It has nothing fundamentally to do with how thick the steel is, or the fact that it is a 2CV. Clearly a thin piece of steel will corrode to nothing faster than a larhe lump of steel; but it'll take you longer to eat a wedding cake than it'll take you to wolf down a mince pie.

Keep it clean, keep it waxed, treat and cover up bare steel and it'll last. Sure restored 2CVs rust. But it isn't because it is impossible to stop them from rusting. Look at how some cars are being "restored" a few tack welds covered by a thin wipe of sealer. Cheap body Schutz straight over bare steel. No layer of water proof primer before panels are painted. as ever it is all about preparation.

If you look at how it is done properly it is a different picture. a good restorer will use zinc rich primer on seams before they're seam sealed. Epoxy primer is used befote filler primers are used on panels. New panels are fully primed and painted before being coated with body Schutz. Good rust prevention is about multiple layers and about subsequent maintenance.

any particular product you suggest?

this is always going to be a split opinionated topic, but personally im for preventation, (at least trying) so long as it is not going to cost more than to replace!

I have to say, I'm with 2-50 AZU on this one. To suggest you can't protect steel from rusting is defeatist at best.

I also rate the likes of Waxoyl (I'm talking the original Finnegan's stuff - I've yet to try the Hammerite version long term) highly, and would use this over any kind of 'painted' coating any time. Most 'bitumen'-type underseals will - in my experience - harden over time and will then become as vulnerable as any 'skin' type of protection; once that skin has been penetrated by a stone chip, a rust speck will form and this will spread under the skin drawing in more water by capillary action. I have found some thick 'Stone-Chip' coatings to be even worse - they really cause major problems once they've been breached - the thickness of the coating means it forms a beautiful, tough skin over the rust and water patch that is spreading underneath... Very often, this tough, wonderful skin will actually hide what's going on underneath. It will also make adding a further seasonal coating ineffective, as what you are applying the top-up coating to is already ineffectual.

'Waxoyl' type products, on the other hand, have the huge advantages of never 'chipping' as such, never peeling, and will always actively repel water. Further top coats will add to - and seal - any breaches. It will 'creep' into and over any surface rust, and will seal it from air and water. (Obviously, a loose flake of rust cannot be protected, as this can simply fall off taking the Waxoyl with it.) I've no idea how good the actual 'rust killing' components in Waxoyl are, but I have found it to be a superb product in general and will always call on it first.

I accept that there are better versions of the 'wax' type underseals out there - people seem to rate Dinitrol very highly - but I have no personal experience of them so can't comment.

But, it's 'WAX' all the way for me.

With any car I've owned, the first thing I do is find out where their particular vulnerable-to-rust areas are. This is pretty easy to do, and owner's clubs and forums are the best source of this info. You then particularly target these areas - simple.

(I bought a Mazda Bongo camper on behalf of my niece. A read through their excellent member's club's forum showed very quickly that the wheel arches and the front sections of the sills (and a rear cross member) were the 'weak' areas. Some owners kept patching the arches and were surprised that bubbles kept reappearing... My little contribution to that forum was to find out how to access the inner wheel arch skins by removing storage pockets, and then spraying thinned Waxoyl in there to seal the panel joins from the inside - because that'[s where the rust was obviously coming from...)

Ok, where are the vulnerable parts of the Deux Chevaux? It's a new model to me, but it's already clear that the upper rear wheel arches are prime rust targets. And it's obvious why. Ditto the boxy part of the front wing which sits against the front footwell - again, it's obvious why. (My solution for the former will be to remove the arches, liberally coat the inner and outer wing contact 'flanges' with a thick, brushed-on layer of unthinned waxoyl (after making sure, of course, that any existing rust is removed and treated with 'cold galv' spray, primer and top coat). Ditto coating the decorative trim. Once bolted up, wipe away any excess that will likely get squeezed out the top when the joint is tightened. Then I will spray from under the arch with slightly thinned Waxoyl to fully coat the seam from underneath, to make absolutely certain that no water will get through to the seam. I DO expect that to pretty much prevent any future rust in that area. Ditto with any other weak spots. Of course, I'll also be coating the whole of the under arches too...

Where else? Oh, inside the door skins. Ans a thick coat brushed into the door rubber flanges before refitting the rubbers would be nifty. No harm in also brushing it behind the bottom door lips too, y'know, behind the rubber where it can't be seen, but where rust likes to take hold unseen. Oh, and inside the sills. And inside the door apertures (through the little holes half-way up - use well-thinned stuff). Etc, etc...

(Another huge advantage of Waxoyl is that you can apply it liberally to anywhere you want, and then simply use a cloth to neatly wipe away any visible bits you don't want - eg: when you spray under the wings, also liberally coat the return edges over the paint. Then use a cloth along the outside to wipe a neat line half-way around the outer edge so that the Waxoyl cannot be seen from the outside, but is still coating the side that's facing the tyres and also the inner sharp edge which is particularly vulnerable. Y'know the bits I mean? Ditton with decor strips such as the sill trims and arch beadings. You can pour Waxoyl along them (or brush it underneath) and then wipe away the excess after the trims have been refitted - it wipes away cleanly.)

Oh, in wet weather, always give the Waxoyl a couple of days at least to 'set' before using the car.

And buy an air freshener...

This is a selection of what I've used on my last several projects.

Left to right:

Two part high build zinc primer. As used to paint the old iron railings on Cleethorpes seafront! Mix the two parts together and apply with an emulsioning roller. Goes on like silver gloss stonechip with a dimpled finish.
I've never had to buy any yet as I had quite a bit. This is my last tin and it's about half full. I dread to think how expensive it is but it's bloody good stuff.
Should be available from an industrial paint supplier if it's still legal.

Two pack polyurethane gloss. Again it's mixed with the activator and I've usually applied it with a roller. Goes on nice and thick and stays flexible. I've used it on inner wheel arches and underneath and it has never chipped at all.
Available from any industrial paint supplier. No idea how much though.

Bodyline cavity wax. 500ml aerosol is fairly cheap from Brown Brothers and comes with the extension probe thing. It's really thin so it soaks into everywhere. Admittedly it makes no claims to convert existing rust like Waxoyl but on new panels (inside of the sills and the like) it's great. Piece of cake to apply too. None of the frustration of a Waxoyl sprayer/buckets of hot water/gallons of white spirit scenario. It's also fairly whiff free too.

Upol acid etch primer. Brilliant on bare metal and newly welded seams before using seam sealer. About a tenner a tin from most paint suppliers (or even Halfords).

At the bottom on the right is brushable seam sealer. I've never been that fussy about the brand I use. It all seems as messy as each other.

And on the top is Bodyline seam sealer for use in a cartridge gun. I use on mire visible seams. Inside the boot where the wings meet the boot floor, or inside where the floor panels meet the sills. Much tidier than the brushable stuff. Again it's from Brown Brothers and is surprisingly cheap.

I must add the I also always have a tin of Waxoyl hanging about in case I ever have to put something on some rust that cannot be removed for whatever reason. I've long since given up on trying to spray it in cavities though.
I'm quite a fan of the Waxoyl Schultz. Sprayed with a Schultz gun it goes on great and seems to stay fresh for years, but never directly onto bare steel.

Oh, and another 2CV weak spot are the window surrounds - they rust away nicely under the rubbers.

A possible solution might be to use an aerosol of wax with a thin spout; use a thin wood spatula and insert in under the rubber to raise it up just enough. Stick the spout in behind the spatula in the raised gap. Slide the stick - with spout in close pursuit - around the whole perimeter spraying gently away (lube the stick with wayoyl first to make it easier). Once the rubber settles back, excess waxoyl will ooze out - just wipe this away flush with a cloth. That should keep it watertight.

Repeat from the inside.

thanks for all your amazing advice,

im going to push the boat out and spend some money, on some wax oil, ill go to my local auto factors, they normally give me a good discount (after convincing the guy that his prices are stupid!) anyway ill get some wax oil, and take all 4 wings off, scrape all the old shite of there, and clean it up, and wax oil all wings again, and anywhere the water could go, im also going to do around all 4 wheels (not on the actual wheels) i mean on the car near the wheels, where "spray" from the road would end up, im going to probably end up smothing the hole of the underneath of the car with the wax oil, am i sensible to do this? its been done before, and its still there, but simply to top it up and make sure that its going to survive in the winter. im also thinking of putting some, (well poping out the window catches and putting them round them to stop water getting into door, as after a down poor when i open my door all the water runs out the bottom where its got in!)

im going to invest in a wax oil gun, thingy, and do the hole car, its been done before, do you think i should bother?

thanks for your good advice

Have you got access to a compressor? The 'high pressure Waxoyl gun' was a dead loss - it was a hand pump which screwed on to a 2.5 ltr can - it was forever blocking up. If you can get hold of a compressor buy yourself a Paraffin gun - they're dead cheap off eBay, etc. You can also had a length of tube to it, whack a nail in the end and pierce some holes in the tube - so it then becomes a cavity gun & with the holes you get great coverage inside sills, door pillars, etc.

such a genius neil

i was thinking of getting a hand pump wax oil gun

yes i do have axcess to a compresser,

i was thinking of plastering the wax oil on with a paint brush????

i will look into getting a parafin gun!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLARKE-AIRLINE-PA ... 1e5b6ffc2a

? any good